10 April 2010

[13:45] Kghia Gherardi: Hi Jago
[13:45] Kghia Gherardi: Hi Fleche
[13:45] Fleche Xeno: hey
[13:46] Jago Constantine: hi, folks :)
[13:46] Kghia Gherardi: Jago, is this a podcast today or a what are you reading discussion?
[13:46] Jago Constantine: what are you reading :)
[13:47] Fleche Xeno: hey
[13:47] Simeon Bookmite: hi Jago
[13:48] Quin Jules: mind if I join you guys?
[13:48] Eddi Haskell: you can join us
[13:48] Jago Constantine: Come join us Quin :)
[13:48] Quin Jules: thanks :)
[13:48] Eddi Haskell: this is a science fiction discussion group!
[13:49] Kghia Gherardi: notices sent
[13:49] Jago Constantine: brb just getting a cup of tea / thanks kghia !
[13:49] Fleche Xeno: before we start, can I tap everyone's brain/
[13:49] Kghia Gherardi: Hi Eddi
[13:49] Kghia Gherardi: Welcome, Quinn
[13:49] Eddi Haskell: hi KG
[13:49] Kghia Gherardi: Sure
[13:49] Fleche Xeno: I'm looking for books/stories
[13:49] Fleche Xeno: that deals with first encoutner
[13:49] Fleche Xeno: on earth
[13:49] Quin Jules: hey
[13:49] Fleche Xeno: like alien visiting earth
[13:50] Fleche Xeno: the only tying sticks in my mind is the miniseries V
[13:50] Fleche Xeno: and I want something more interesting than that.
[13:50] Quin Jules: Some of Ray Bradbury's Martian Chronicles stories are pretty good for that kind of feel.
[13:50] Quin Jules: it's sort of opposite, but the feeling's the same
[13:50] Simeon Bookmite: footfall is one
[13:50] Simeon Bookmite: but it did not impress
[13:51] Fleche Xeno: anyone recent works on that kidna of general
[13:51] Fleche Xeno: I know calculating god had the briefst mention
[13:51] Fleche Xeno: but it was more about the idea of a god head
[13:51] Kghia Gherardi: Hi Judi. Welcome
[13:51] Kghia Gherardi: Any of Tobias Buckell's work, Si?
[13:51] Kghia Gherardi: Welcome, Everly
[13:51] Everly Porterfield: thank you
[13:51] Simeon Bookmite: no
[13:51] Jago Constantine: ok back
[13:51] Kghia Gherardi: We are talking science fiction in the back room
[13:51] Everly Porterfield: waiting for rez..
[13:52] Simeon Bookmite: the wirld war series by turtledove
[13:52] Simeon Bookmite: second world war with aliens
[13:52] Simeon Bookmite: world war
[13:52] Quin Jules: huh. sounds interesting.
[13:52] Jago Constantine: ok thanks for coming everyone
[13:52] Judi Newall: Oops sorry thought I'd rezzed all
[13:52] Fleche Xeno: thanks simeon
[13:53] Jago Constantine: For anyone who hasn't been to one of these meetings before / we go round the group and take turns discussing what we've read last in sci fi
[13:53] Everly Porterfield: /me nods.
[13:53] Quin Jules: sounds like fun. :)
[13:53] Jago Constantine: its been a while since we had one of these meetings - / we've been listening to podcast stories a lot lol
[13:54] Simeon Bookmite: so we should all have read something
[13:54] Eddi Haskell: i love thoese stories
[13:54] Jago Constantine: yes lol / ok I'll begin
[13:54] Everly Porterfield: /me smiles, listens
[13:54] Jago Constantine: the last sci fi I read was Alastair Reynolds' Redemption Ark
[13:54] Everly Porterfield: new book?
[13:54] Jago Constantine: it's from his revelation space series - from 2002 / so not new
[13:55] Everly Porterfield: /me nods.
[13:55] Jago Constantine: I've just been going back through the series
[13:55] Everly Porterfield: premise?
[13:55] Jago Constantine: The revelation space books are a hard sci fi space opera / so no FTL travel / the human race is spread across a few dozen light years / about 600 years in the future
[13:56] Everly Porterfield: /me listens.
[13:56] Eddi Haskell: yah
[13:56] Jago Constantine: there seem to be a few main factions ... in this book we see a lot of the Conjoiners
[13:56] Kghia Gherardi: Hi Roy. Welcome.
[13:56] Roy Smashcan: Hiya
[13:56] Jago Constantine: who are into enhanced intellect and are almost an incipient group mind / they're having a war with another group, the demarchists, but it turns out that they're only going through the motions in the war / and preparing to face a greater threat
[13:57] Eddi Haskell: what is a demarchist just a name?
[13:57] Jago Constantine: Demarchy is a political concept / in which, I think, people are hooked into the political process in their mind
[13:57] Everly Porterfield: /me nods.
[13:57] Jago Constantine: and vote on issues all the time / it's a kind of direct democracy
[13:58] Everly Porterfield: /me nods.
[13:58] Jago Constantine: without elected representatives I think
[13:58] Roy Smashcan: A more efficient Switzerland?
[13:58] Everly Porterfield: /me grins.
[13:58] Jago Constantine: lol
[13:58] Eddi Haskell: Demarchy (or lottocracy) is a form of democracy in which the state is governed by randomly selected decision makers who have been selected by sortition (lot).
[13:58] Quin Jules: lol
[13:58] Fleche Xeno: so a mob-rule? emergent consensus model?
[13:58] Everly Porterfield: with a hive mind
[13:58] Quin Jules: huh
[13:58] Jago Constantine: well the demarchists in the novel don't seem to have elected representatives / and they're not a hive mind like the conjoiners seem to be becoming
[13:59] Everly Porterfield: ah, had that backwards
[13:59] Fleche Xeno: so it's people voting on issues on a contonla basis, high end electronic democracy?
[13:59] Jago Constantine: thats right
[13:59] Fleche Xeno: i've seen that in a few stories
[13:59] Everly Porterfield: Not sure I have...
[13:59] Jago Constantine: in other books its explored a bit more
[13:59] Simeon Bookmite: what is the greater risk?
[13:59] Fleche Xeno: please continue
[13:59] Jago Constantine: for instance it seems that some people have more weight given to their votes / if they consistently make what turns out to be the best decision in retrospect / as determined by computers / AIs
[14:00] Everly Porterfield: oh..hm.
[14:00] Jago Constantine: so one quasi-mythical person has a vote worth 4 votes :P
[14:00] Fleche Xeno: so democracy as a test bed that evolves into an expert-influenced model?
[14:01] Jago Constantine: yes ... well I imagine that a lot of people wouldn't know much about the issues they're voting on
[14:01] Everly Porterfield: so, it's a sci-fi book that makes a political statement.
[14:01] Jago Constantine: that's really just background in this book
[14:01] Everly Porterfield: /me nods.
[14:01] Jago Constantine: its mostly about the threat of the Inhibitors, and the response to it
[14:01] Roy Smashcan: Ah, which book is this?
[14:01] Jago Constantine: Redemption Ark by Alastair Reynolds
[14:01] Roy Smashcan: Ok, thanks
[14:02] Jago Constantine: as I said the Inhibitors are berserker probes / machines that want to destroy intelligent life / they turn up in sci fi now and then / Reynold's interesting take / on the subject is that they are not simply destroying civilizations / for the sake of it, but only doing it as a temporary measure until after / a great catastrophe 3 billion years in the future
[14:03] Everly Porterfield: /me nods.
[14:03] Jago Constantine: after that their job will be done and life can flourish / of course that's no comfort for humans right now lol
[14:04] Quin Jules: lol one would imagine not
[14:04] Everly Porterfield: /me grins.
[14:04] Jago Constantine: anyway, it's an enjoyable book - one of the better ones in the series I think
[14:04] Everly Porterfield: /me smiles.
[14:04] Jago Constantine: because of the revelations about the inhibitors, and seeing them in action when they reach the first solar system in human space
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: what is human space or am i being bart simpson today again
[14:05] Jago Constantine: the novels are quite dark and gritty if you like that kind of sci fi / that is the part of the galaxy where humans are :)
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: ah
[14:05] Simeon Bookmite: hi Bart
[14:05] Jago Constantine: lol / ok that's my reading / Eddi - did you read anything?
[14:05] Everly Porterfield: thanks Jago
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: yes
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: I have been reading alot of alternative history
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: but i cannot figure somethinng out
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: and i am wriging my own now
[14:06] Eddi Haskell: writing
[14:06] Jago Constantine: cool
[14:06] Eddi Haskell: can i ask the group a question?
[14:06] Jago Constantine: sure!
[14:06] Eddi Haskell: in alternative history
[14:06] Everly Porterfield: /me listens.
[14:06] Eddi Haskell: and i cannot remember the exact name it was a footnote
[14:06] Eddi Haskell: there are two schools of thought
[14:06] Eddi Haskell: 1.
[14:06] Eddi Haskell: if in the past events changed
[14:06] Eddi Haskell: such as in britain in May 1940 when Churchill took over as Prime Minister from Chamberlain
[14:06] Eddi Haskell: it almost went to Lord Halifax who was ready to cut a deal with the Germans for peace
[14:06] Eddi Haskell: right
[14:07] Eddi Haskell: if THAT happened one school of thought holds that the future would be very different
[14:07] Eddi Haskell: a second school of thought holds
[14:07] Eddi Haskell: that at some point, if an event in the past changed
[14:07] Eddi Haskell: everything would turn out to be the same in the end at nth point of time
[14:07] Eddi Haskell: what are they talking about?
[14:07] Everly Porterfield: course correcting
[14:07] Eddi Haskell: how can someone say that
[14:07] Eddi Haskell: can you explain to me
[14:07] Quin Jules: I think it has to do with how influential the event is.
[14:07] Jago Constantine: well they're talking about how determined history is
[14:08] Everly Porterfield: nod
[14:08] Fleche Xeno: I think we need to make a distinction between needing to change some historilca precedent
[14:08] Jago Constantine: predetermined
[14:08] Eddi Haskell: only God can do that right
[14:08] Fleche Xeno: to use the alternate historical as a background
[14:08] Fleche Xeno: vs. examinigng history
[14:08] Eddi Haskell: yeah
[14:08] Fleche Xeno: by changing causal points
[14:08] Fleche Xeno: to create potential historical narrative
[14:08] Fleche Xeno: I think there' is the great confusion
[14:08] Jago Constantine: Well in a materialistic universe things are theoretically determined by the previous physical states / (barring quantum effects)
[14:08] Kghia Gherardi: Hi Eppie
[14:08] Simeon Bookmite: they say that economic abd social pressures have more influence than indivuals
[14:08] Eddi Haskell: hi eppie!
[14:08] Fleche Xeno: One book I recommend is Focult's Pendalum
[14:09] Fleche Xeno: it's a great novel
[14:09] Everly Porterfield: and we do not know what things are happening behind the scenes.
[14:09] Eddi Haskell: oh great
[14:09] Everly Porterfield: love that book
[14:09] Fleche Xeno: about how our mind can reinteerpte history
[14:09] Fleche Xeno: and how conspiracy theory are created, not ot crate alternate universe
[14:09] Fleche Xeno: but to undermine our understanding of the commonly agreed upon causes.
[14:09] Fleche Xeno: and ,thsu, shift our mind about how we preceive theworld.
[14:09] Everly Porterfield: hm
[14:10] Fleche Xeno: a conspraicy theory doesn't change the historicla fact
[14:10] Fleche Xeno: but links them with an alternative causal theory
[14:10] Fleche Xeno: while an alternate history changesthe hoistorical facts
[14:10] Fleche Xeno: to play with ideology
[14:10] Eddi Haskell: i can understand what you are saying
[14:10] Eddi Haskell: i get it i think
[14:10] Jago Constantine: anyway basically Eddi / I think both schools of thought are correct at different times / individual changes can have great consequences / or not
[14:11] Fleche Xeno: conspiracy theory is psychology. alternate history is mix some whale bones with t-rex bones
[14:11] Quin Jules: depending on what other events hinge on those
[14:11] Fleche Xeno: and create a new creature.
[14:11] Jago Constantine: say if hitler had died in WWII
[14:11] Everly Porterfield: or maybe someone is writing history and we'll never know it because we're only the characters in the book
[14:11] Jago Constantine: WWI I mean
[14:11] Fleche Xeno: with conspiracy theory, you only swtich the bons around. but you can't take any away.
[14:11] Jago Constantine: the stage was set for fascism to arise in europe perhaps / so maybe there would have been a war similar to WWII
[14:11] Everly Porterfield: /me nods.
[14:11] Quin Jules: but perhaps not on the level of WWII
[14:11] Roy Smashcan: Maybe we're all just characters on the screen in some online game O_o
[14:11] Everly Porterfield: /me grins.
[14:12] Fleche Xeno: one book I recomend on alterate history, The Polish Policemen's Union, by michael chabon
[14:12] Eddi Haskell: roy i have often thought that
[14:12] Jago Constantine: say maybe the communists would have taken over in Germany instead
[14:12] Fleche Xeno: it's an alterant history
[14:12] Simeon Bookmite: New ideas that gain influence have more effect than an individual character i think.
[14:12] Quin Jules: lol We're all a massly huge game of the Sims God is playing right now
[14:12] Fleche Xeno: but the alt hist is background.
[14:12] Jago Constantine: well that might be a big change now lol
[14:12] Eddi Haskell: yiddish i think it is
[14:12] Jago Constantine: yes, yiddish :)
[14:12] Fleche Xeno: yes, yiddish
[14:12] Fleche Xeno: I was reading about wiki entry on wwii book you gusy mentioned
[14:12] Fleche Xeno: and got piroski on my mind
[14:12] Fleche Xeno: the chabon book is a great example of alternate history as backgournd
[14:13] Roy Smashcan: The Chabon book was a Hugo winner in 2008.
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: yah
[14:13] Fleche Xeno: chabon used alternate history to create a society that is in transiotn
[14:13] Fleche Xeno: its' like chinatown, the movie, using the owen vallye water theft, as backgrond
[14:13] Fleche Xeno: but it makes the plot more interesting
[14:13] Everly Porterfield: /me nods...although none of that is familiar.
[14:13] Jago Constantine: ok Eddi did we answer your question?
[14:13] Fleche Xeno: I think a true alterante history book is
[14:13] Fleche Xeno: Pride and Prejudice, with zombies.
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: well , the question cannot be answered but you explained it well! thanks!
[14:13] Quin Jules: lol!
[14:13] Simeon Bookmite: alternate history should cast a differnt light on our present
[14:13] Judi Newall: Sorry, major crash, I'll try again to make another meeting! Excuse me pls
[14:13] Fleche Xeno: there, the alternate history is central to the story.
[14:14] Everly Porterfield: /me grins.
[14:14] Jago Constantine: bye judi!
[14:14] Everly Porterfield: bye judi
[14:14] Simeon Bookmite: bye
[14:14] Quin Jules: bye judi! hope your computer behaves!
[14:14] Jago Constantine: kghia - have you been reading any sci fi?
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: I have all these notes and I will be writing a story that I will ditribute
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: i love to write
[14:14] Kghia Gherardi: I haven't. Just following the conversation today
[14:14] Jago Constantine: ok cool ... simeon?
[14:14] Quin Jules: e-high five to fellow writer!
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: lol
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: historians seem to thing
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: the emman telegram
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: i think it is called that
[14:14] Simeon Bookmite: I read Sly Mongoose by Tobaias Buckell
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: which caused the franco prussian war
[14:15] Eddi Haskell: is crucial sorry simone
[14:15] Jago Constantine: how was it?
[14:15] Everly Porterfield: Sly Mongoose, I've not heard of that either.
[14:15] Everly Porterfield: /me listens
[14:15] Simeon Bookmite: very good
[14:15] Everly Porterfield: /me nods...
[14:16] Simeon Bookmite: it is set on floating citys above a planet similar to venus
[14:16] Simeon Bookmite: one of the power groups sounds very similar to your Demarchists
[14:16] Jago Constantine: cool / hehe
[14:17] Everly Porterfield: so many sci-fi books are really political in nature I think. I wonder if that's really true of MOST books.
[14:17] Everly Porterfield: (in some way or another)
[14:17] Jago Constantine: well humans are political animals :P
[14:17] Everly Porterfield: /me nods.
[14:17] Quin Jules: true that. :)
[14:18] Simeon Bookmite: It is very much space opera
[14:38] Simeon Bookmite: and the best thing I have read by Buckell
[14:38] Jago Constantine: is it his latest book?
[14:38] Everly Porterfield: I don't know much about sci-fi, what's space opera? that's the 2nd time I heard the phrase today.
[14:39] Jago Constantine: space opera is like ... star wars
[14:39] Simeon Bookmite: Pepper the guy who turns up in a lot of his stories
[14:39] Everly Porterfield: /me nods.
[14:39] Jago Constantine: its science fiction on a grand scale / with lots of dramatic storylines
[14:39] Everly Porterfield: oh...hm.
[14:39] Simeon Bookmite: and generally sjhoots all the badies while everyone else gets on with the plot
[14:40] Everly Porterfield: /me listens to Simeon.
[14:40] Simeon Bookmite: finds that he has to play the the politics game this time
[14:40] Simeon Bookmite: to become a Sly mongoose
[14:40] Everly Porterfield: /me smiles.
[14:40] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:41] Simeon Bookmite: some body has launched a bio weapon that turns people into group Minded Zombies
[14:41] Simeon Bookmite: at the planet
[14:42] Jago Constantine: wow
[14:42] Simeon Bookmite: Pepper has to get the oposition organised work out the real target.
[14:43] Everly Porterfield: Oh Dear, I'm sorry, but RL just called me up. Sorry to interrupt Simeon. Thank you for the talk Jago.
[14:43] Jago Constantine: no worries / come again next week!
[14:43] Simeon Bookmite: nice effects allways important in s space opera
[14:43] Jago Constantine: thanks simeon :) / Roy - have you read any sci fi lately?
[14:44] Simeon Bookmite: with good tech ideas not just ray guns and rockets
[14:44] Jago Constantine: oops sorry simeon I thought you were done lol
[14:44] Roy Smashcan: Hmm. Last book I got was The Trade of Queens by Charles Stross. It's the wrapup of his Merchant Princes series.
[14:44] Simeon Bookmite: sm now
[14:44] Jago Constantine: oh I didn't like that series :P / what did you think?
[14:45] Roy Smashcan: I quite like it - but I'm a fan of all his writing.
[14:45] Jago Constantine: this was a bit too fantasy for my liking
[14:45] Roy Smashcan: I liked the way he set up the whole medieval thing then ripped it apart.
[14:46] Jago Constantine: heh / that reminds me of the connecticut yankee in king Arthur's court
[14:46] Roy Smashcan: Well, I quite like fantasy - but there's too much "Extruded Fantasy Product" out there.
[14:46] Jago Constantine: true
[14:46] Quin Jules: No kidding.
[14:46] Jago Constantine: thanks roy
[14:46] Eddi Haskell: hey I got a bunch of speedos like that at junglewear
[14:46] Jago Constantine: Quin - what have you read lately
[14:47] Quin Jules: I think the last one I read was sort of scfi/horror
[14:47] Quin Jules: It was "I have no mouth and I must scream"
[14:47] Jago Constantine: oh nice
[14:47] Quin Jules: Bad reading for the middle of the night, let me tell you XD
[14:47] Jago Constantine: harlan ellison
[14:47] Quin Jules: I really enjoyed it.
[14:47] Jago Constantine: yes me too
[14:47] Quin Jules: I hadn't read much by him, but I really like that one.
[14:48] Jago Constantine: yeah Its one of my favourites of his
[14:48] Quin Jules: It's got such a great creepy ambiance. So good. :)
[14:48] Jago Constantine: basically its about an AI that wipes out the human race except for a few survivors / and lets see ... / I forget how it works
[14:49] Quin Jules: And the AI has worked it out so that he can keep them alive and tortured forever.
[14:49] Jago Constantine: is it insane because its stuck where it is? I forget
[14:49] Quin Jules: It was developed during the Cold War and got fed up with how ridiculous and illogical the humans were being.
[14:49] Fleche Xeno: sounds like Matrix with a BDSM bent.
[14:49] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:49] Quin Jules: So it took over all the other AI's like it and blew the planet and the human race to kingdom come save for five people.
[14:50] Quin Jules: lol!
[14:50] Eddi Haskell: i have to go see my mom she called me bye eveyrone see ya next week!
[14:50] Jago Constantine: cya eddi babe
[14:50] Quin Jules: bye!
[14:50] Quin Jules: :)
[14:50] Jago Constantine: thanks quin! / eppie - have you read any science fiction lately?
[14:50] Quin Jules: np. :)
[14:51] Eppie Shoreman: not lately
[14:51] Jago Constantine: thats ok :) / Fleche? / ok folks / I think its about time to finish up anyway :)
[14:53] Simeon Bookmite: uep iur hour ts up
[14:53] Fleche Xeno: yeah
[14:53] Fleche Xeno: sorry. :)
[14:53] Jago Constantine: thanks for coming!
[14:53] Fleche Xeno: just in middle of galileo's dream. :)
[14:53] Kghia Gherardi: he is such a clock watcher. :D
[14:53] Jago Constantine: next week we'll be listening to a podcast short story again / hehe I go to breakfast on sunday mornings :)
[14:53] Quin Jules: Is this every week around now?
[14:53] Jago Constantine: I'm in Australia / yes every week at 2pm saturday SL time
[14:53] Simeon Bookmite: yes an hour every week
[14:53] Quin Jules: cool! I think I'll make this a habit. :)
[14:53] Quin Jules: It was really nive talking to you guys.
[14:53] Quin Jules: *nice
[14:54] Jago Constantine: glad you liked it! / bye folks!
[14:54] Quin Jules: See you next week! :)
[14:54] Simeon Bookmite: yes!