4 July 2009: Walpole

[13:24] Melch Savon: Hey Jago -- early for once
[13:24] Jago Constantine: Hey, Melch /cool outfit
[13:24] Melch Savon: Thanks -- found it wandering around last night
[13:25] Jago Constantine: Where from?
[13:25] Melch Savon: let me check the note in inventory
[13:25] Melch Savon: Blue Galaxy. They make you buy it piecemeal though, so it adds up.
[13:25] Jago Constantine: heh
[13:25] Melch Savon: I think I am wearing about L$1500
[13:26] Jago Constantine: I like the mall at Insilico ... some great things there
[13:26] Melch Savon: Insilico remains one of the coolest places I've seen in SL -- not that I have seen it all by any means, but still
[13:26] Melch Savon: I found a 40 foot tall cross in Golden Gate Park yesterday
[13:26] Jago Constantine: RL?
[13:27] Melch Savon: Apparently it is the site that Francis Drake's minister preached the first sermon in English in North America
[13:27] Melch Savon: Yes, wrapping up a guided tour iPhone app
[13:27] Jago Constantine: wow
[13:27] Melch Savon: Doing the park first -- I spent three hours going around and getting latitude / longitude readings.
[13:27] Jago Constantine: there you go / what were the readings for?
[13:29] Melch Savon: So you can say 'how do I get there from wherever I am right now' and I can map it on Google Maps
[13:29] Jago Constantine: ah
[13:29] Melch Savon: Later I'll make a web site where people can make their own tours, or even games where you only find things out if it is a certain time of day.
[13:29] Jago Constantine: hehe
[13:29] Melch Savon: Then I'll add in overlays to reality / Virtual objects on the iPhone screen which is showing what the camera sees, than sort of thing
[13:30] Jago Constantine: cool project
[13:30] Melch Savon: It's a hobby, but the nice thing about being laid off (the only nice thing) is I can work on my projects
[13:30] Jago Constantine: heh
[13:30] Jago Constantine: a man of leisure
[13:31] Melch Savon: Until I can't pay the bills any longer
[13:31] Jago Constantine: yeah
[13:31] Melch Savon: Which means pretty soon I'll have to leave San Francisco for cheaper locales
[13:31] Jago Constantine: somewhere close?
[13:31] Melch Savon: Luckily I own an empty condo in Phoenix. The tenant had to leave, and there is no mortgage, so living there will be cheap / No, not really close / Nor as cool of a place
[13:32] Jago Constantine: ah ... that will be a cultural change
[13:32] Melch Savon: I lived there 4.5 years. Its not like I can do alot while keeping costs to a minimum anyways
[13:32] Jago Constantine: yeah
[13:32] Melch Savon: I have some contract work leads, hopefully they will pan out as well
[13:32] Jago Constantine: great
[13:33] Melch Savon: Enough about my little world though -- what have you been up to?
[13:33] Jago Constantine: well we're still waiting for this parcel to be swapped for zindra land
[13:34] Jago Constantine: the lindens got like 700 swap requests in the first hour I think
[13:34] Melch Savon: Ouch
[13:34] Jago Constantine: they were being processed in order, and we're 10.07am / lol / I think they did like 5 minutes worth / now they paused for the weekend
[13:35] Melch Savon: It's a big holiday here in the US too. They probably left early yesterday. Most businesses never even opened
[13:35] Melch Savon: A bit after this I am heading off to join the festivities myself
[13:36] Jago Constantine: cool
[13:36] Jago Constantine: fireworks and barbecues>
[13:36] Jago Constantine: ?
[13:36] Melch Savon: Well, assuming I don't let myself get sucked into working on the iphone app. I need to wrap it up to start the next project
[13:37] Jago Constantine: heh
[13:37] Melch Savon: Building a web site with professional quality writers tools. You pay $50 to $100 in the store, with $80 a year in upgrades. I'll sell it as a webservice for $3 a month.
[13:37] Jago Constantine: cool
[13:38] Melch Savon: A friend of mine just left the board of a screenwriters association -- if I make a version that formats for screenwriters, he says he'll push it in his group
[13:38] Melch Savon: For a revenue split of course
[13:38] Jago Constantine: hehe
[13:38] Melch Savon: Yeah, there's lots of cool stuff that can be done out there
[13:38] Jago Constantine: indeed
[13:40] Melch Savon: oh, and I continue to fight the urge to learn to build in SL. I just don't think I have as much hope of making $ there.
[13:41] Melch Savon pauses ... he does too much at once, doesn't he?
[13:41] Jago Constantine: heh ... I have a lot of things going on too :P / I think it's achievable to break even with SL
[13:42] Melch Savon: Sure -- but make a living? Some people do, but I think the odds are against you
[13:42] Jago Constantine: well if you make a good product ...
[13:43] Jago Constantine: I mean, I sell t-shirts with national flags on them
[13:43] Jago Constantine: they're not too great, but I sell 1 a day for L$50
[13:43] Melch Savon: Hmm .. . I have never tried, so I have to go with your experience here
[13:43] Jago Constantine: lol / with no marketing
[13:43] Melch Savon: That's pretty nice actually
[13:43] Jago Constantine: they just keep going out through xstreetsl
[13:44] Jago Constantine: and I don't even have a US flag :P
[13:44] Jago Constantine: I sold a bunch for canada day this week
[13:44] Jago Constantine: this is papua new guinea
[13:44] Melch Savon: Should have done the US. We celebrate being a country today
[13:45] Jago Constantine: yeah lol
[13:45] Melch Savon: I'm sure lots of people were looking for it
[13:45] Jago Constantine: I'll have it done for next year / Because it's more of a hobby (I plan to have all the flags eventually) / I'm not fussed about doing the US first :P
[13:46] Melch Savon: It would have been a product of opportunity anyways. No one would buy it tomorrow
[13:46] Melch Savon: THat is a really nicely done shirt though
[13:46] Jago Constantine: Hey, Cache, welcome
[13:46] Melch Savon: Hello there Cache
[13:46] Cache Forster: Greetings Folks :)
[13:46] Jago Constantine: Cool avatar ... you remind me of teddy roosevelt
[13:47] Melch Savon starts thinking of the puns ... cache fault ... cache hit ... cache miss ...
[13:47] Cache Forster: this avatar "Has been rode hard .....and put up wet"
[13:48] Jago Constantine: lol / have a look around the ship if you want / the meeting is in 10 minutes or so
[13:48] Cache Forster: Thank you
[13:49] Jago Constantine: I'm running a promotions group for zindra residents
[13:49] Jago Constantine: even though I haven't moved yet :P
[13:50] Jago Constantine: we had a big zindrapendence day party last night
[13:50] Melch Savon: Zindrapendence?
[13:50] Jago Constantine: heh independence day/opening of zindra
[13:51] Melch Savon: No, I got it -- I just thought it was funny
[13:51] Jago Constantine: heh / we had about 30+ people on the sim for 4 hours dancing / great dj / SO, Cache, do you always wear that shape?
[13:58] Cache Forster: is this on the continent of Ursala ?
[13:58] Jago Constantine: No, it's not
[13:58] Jago Constantine: I'm waiting for a land swap for my museum upstairs
[13:59] Jago Constantine: Hi, Groove, welcome
[13:59] Jago Constantine: :)
[13:59] Groove Dagger: hello / wow it's hard to get in here
[13:59] Jago Constantine: sorry, did you miss the landmark giver?
[13:59] Melch Savon: Hey Groove
[14:00] Groove Dagger: yeah... first the event teleported me to ground level
[14:00] Jago Constantine: ah strange
[14:00] Cache Forster: soory I am not ignoring your question of trying to be terse -
[14:00] Jago Constantine: Well, it's gone 2pm, so if you would like to sit down we can start :) / Basically for you newcomers, we go round the group and talk about the last science fiction we read / you're welcome to just sit in and audit if you want to
[14:01] Groove Dagger: oh right, i just found out this event a couple hours ago, so i haven't exactly prepared
[14:01] Jago Constantine: No worries :) / You might feel more comfortable when you've heard the rest of us :)
[14:02] Groove Dagger: alrighty then ㋡
[14:02] Jago Constantine: Anyway, I've been re-reading Douglas Adams' 'Mostly Harmless'
[14:03] Jago Constantine: book 5 of his Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy
[14:03] Jago Constantine: :P
[14:03] Jago Constantine: It's as funny as the other ones, but it has a slightly more cynical or melancholy tone to it
[14:04] Melch Savon: Eddi!
[14:04] Groove Dagger: hello eddi
[14:04] Jago Constantine: Hi, Eddi :)
[14:04] Jago Constantine: we just started
[14:04] Eddi Haskell: hi / rezzing
[14:04] Jago Constantine: Sure
[14:04] Jago Constantine: Anyway there's one hilarious sequence in the novel where Arthur Dent, the hapless protagonist of the series
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: how is everyone
[14:05] Jago Constantine: ends up on a prehistoric planet
[14:05] Jago Constantine: there's an old trope in sci fi about people travelling to primitive times or worlds and introducing technology
[14:06] Jago Constantine: well arthur realises, like many people in the modern world, that he doesn't know much about making things
[14:06] Jago Constantine: so he ends up introducing the one invention he can reliably make
[14:06] Jago Constantine: the sandwich :P
[14:07] Bryce Galbraith: Hi all.
[14:07] Eddi Haskell: hi bryce
[14:07] Groove Dagger: hello bryce
[14:07] Melch Savon waves
[14:07] Jago Constantine: Hi, bryce, welcome
[14:08] Bryce Galbraith: Been a while since I've been able to come by here.
[14:08] Melch Savon: Arthur invents beer?
[14:08] Jago Constantine: heh no ... just the sandwich
[14:08] Melch Savon: The towel?
[14:09] Groove Dagger: i remember that book
[14:09] Melch Savon: *sigh* Civilization must start somewhere I guess
[14:09] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:09] Groove Dagger: i read a single compilation of all 5 (6?) back to back
[14:10] Groove Dagger: the ending was a bit of a downer
[14:10] Jago Constantine: oh did we lose Cache?
[14:10] Jago Constantine: yeah it was
[14:10] Groove Dagger: douglas said that he was depressed when he wrote that one, and he regreted it later
[14:10] Jago Constantine: yeah... that comes across
[14:10] Bryce Galbraith: Are you talking about the last books in the Hitchhiker's series?
[14:11] Groove Dagger: so he was sorta thinking about a 6th book where everyone ends up in the afterlife or something ㋡
[14:11] Jago Constantine: Mostly Harmless
[14:11] Bryce Galbraith: I came in mid-conversation...sorry.
[14:11] Jago Constantine: no worries :)
[14:12] Bryce Galbraith: Yeah, I read the Hitchhiker's series and sometimes give the first three a re-read, but I thought 'So Long and Thanks for All the Fish' and definitely 'Mostly Harmless' kinda went awry.
[14:12] Groove Dagger: yeah fish was a bit strange, a lot of pointless flying...
[14:13] Groove Dagger: i finally saw the tv version, it was all over youtube ㋡ pretty cool
[14:13] Jago Constantine: yeah I like the tv version
[14:14] Jago Constantine: many don't :P
[14:14] Bryce Galbraith: Yeah, I thought the tv version was rather more true to the books. The movie went off into something unrecognizable.
[14:14] Bryce Galbraith: I never heard the radio version though.
[14:14] Groove Dagger: i had the radio version. i dont remember if i finished it
[14:15] Melch Savon: I relistened to it 2 weeks ago -- I still think the radio version is the best
[14:15] Groove Dagger: tv is better, probably. the voice acting is almost the same
[14:16] Groove Dagger: but the radio one is more "complete"
[14:16] Bryce Galbraith: I guess the radio version was really the original and the books came later.
[14:16] Bryce Galbraith: .. and then the tv version after that.
[14:16] Groove Dagger: i'm not sure of that
[14:16] Groove Dagger: i had the order written down somewhere
[14:16] Bryce Galbraith: Did any of you read the 'Dirk Gently' books?
[14:16] Melch Savon: Years ago, yeah.
[14:16] Jago Constantine: yes, I really like them
[14:17] Groove Dagger: oh you're right, radio, book then tv. at least the beginning
[14:17] Jago Constantine: yeah I think thats the order
[14:17] Jago Constantine: and there was a text based computer game
[14:18] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:18] Groove Dagger: oh i have that game memorized
[14:18] Groove Dagger: i played it when it came out on my c-64
[14:18] Bryce Galbraith: Yeah, that's right... from Infocom. I had that :)
[14:18] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:18] Bryce Galbraith: That was actually pretty funny to play... as a text-based game it worked well actually.
[14:18] Groove Dagger: i even had the box and all, with the plastic bag containing a microscopic space fleet :D
[14:18] Bryce Galbraith: Yep! :)
[14:18] Jago Constantine: wow
[14:18] Groove Dagger: and peril sensitive glasses
[14:19] Bryce Galbraith: and the fluff... and I think a 'Don't Panic' button maybe.
[14:19] Groove Dagger: i can play it end to end without reloading, haha
[14:19] Groove Dagger: there's a flash version on the BBC site.
[14:19] Jago Constantine: oh that's cool
[14:20] Groove Dagger: with fan art graphics
[14:20] Groove Dagger: oh also someone found and old hard disk of infocom, with the sequel
[14:20] Jago Constantine: Hi, celt, welcome!
[14:20] Groove Dagger: but it was mostly a draft with two incomplete rooms :D
[14:20] Bryce Galbraith: Hi Celt
[14:20] Groove Dagger: hi celt
[14:21] Jago Constantine: awesome avatar
[14:21] Celt Faith: hello
[14:21] Eddi Haskell: oh lord i thought it was my older sister for a second
[14:21] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:21] Eddi Haskell: hi there penguin
[14:21] Bryce Galbraith: Yes, very nice av...
[14:21] Celt Faith: ty
[14:21] Groove Dagger: great avie... i need to find how to do that
[14:21] Celt Faith: so what did I miss
[14:22] Jago Constantine: we've been discussing douglas adms
[14:22] Jago Constantine: adams
[14:22] Jago Constantine: I re-read Mostly Harmless
[14:22] Jago Constantine: this week
[14:22] Celt Faith: I have heard the name but I hvae not read anything that he has done
[14:22] Jago Constantine: Ok ... he's a very funny and clever writer
[14:22] Groove Dagger: i played starship titanic also
[14:22] Jago Constantine: he was
[14:22] Celt Faith: starship titanic, there is a new one for me
[14:23] Bryce Galbraith: I'd say Douglas Adams and the Hitchhiker's series was a pretty significant part of my education growing up :) That and Monty Python....
[14:23] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:23] Groove Dagger: lately i've got most of my british humour from PTerry.
[14:24] Jago Constantine: yes, I like his early books better :)
[14:24] Groove Dagger: me too, they're a bit more substance
[14:25] Jago Constantine: Ok, Bryce... read anything good this week?
[14:25] Groove Dagger: adams was a bit more gag-based, but still pretty good
[14:26] Bryce Galbraith: Unfortunately I haven't.... been really busy with work this past week to the exclusion of most everything else :(
[14:26] Jago Constantine: no worries :)
[14:26] Jago Constantine: how about since you were with us last?
[14:27] Bryce Galbraith: I did pick up Vernor Vinge's 'Rainbows End' but I haven't had a chance to get into that yet.
[14:27] Jago Constantine: ok ... that's a good read ... anything of vinge's is :)
[14:28] Bryce Galbraith: I was already reading Stephen Baxter's 'Evolution', which is interesting but fairly long...
[14:29] Bryce Galbraith: Especially earlier in the book when he's more or less writing about different critters running around and all... it gets more interesting later though when humans emerge.
[14:29] Jago Constantine: yes ... I didn't get into that one from memory
[14:31] Bryce Galbraith: I have to say though it's sort of interesting in that there really aren't any 'main' characters really. Oh yeah, there's a couple of characters in the beginning that then pop up later, but they are really there as just a couple of anchoring points for telling a story stretching millions of years.
[14:31] Jago Constantine: yeah
[14:32] Bryce Galbraith: It's fairly ambitious and I have to give Baxter credit for attempting it. I don't think it winds up being the same kind of read as other novels though.
[14:32] Jago Constantine: Baxter is nothing if not ambitious :)
[14:33] Jago Constantine: he usually writes cosmologically or conceptually interesting stuff
[14:33] Bryce Galbraith: That's true... sometimes you have an author that, after you read something of theirs, you just want a simple comic book!
[14:33] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:33] Bryce Galbraith: Yeah, I think my favorite book by Baxter is 'The TIme Ships', which is kind of a sequel to Wells' 'The Time Machine
[14:34] Jago Constantine: I'm not sure what mine is ... maybe Anti-Ice
[14:34] Bryce Galbraith: I love your ship here, btw.
[14:34] Jago Constantine: thanks ... eddi got it as a gift from a designer he photographed for his magazine
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: well i would like ot give all of you and issue of july vr style, it is the steampunk issue, I am creative direcvtor, i reviewed this
[14:35] Jago Constantine: see?
[14:35] Jago Constantine: :P
[14:35] Eddi Haskell: you might recognize the guy on the cover
[14:35] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:35] Melch Savon: Thanks Eddi!
[14:35] Groove Dagger: nice
[14:35] Eddi Haskell: sure!
[14:35] Bryce Galbraith: Cool, thanks Eddi :)
[14:36] Eddi Haskell: sure
[14:36] Groove Dagger: an UI magazine, clever :D
[14:36] Eddi Haskell: ui?
[14:36] Groove Dagger: i'm a bit of a noob, hehe
[14:36] Jago Constantine: HUD magazine
[14:36] Jago Constantine: user interface
[14:36] Groove Dagger: HUD yes
[14:36] Eddi Haskell: yah butu can rex it
[14:36] Eddi Haskell: rez ir
[14:36] Eddi Haskell: im a bit out of it to type now lol
[14:36] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:37] Groove Dagger: i only started SL yesterday
[14:37] Jago Constantine: Oh, wow - welcome!
[14:37] Eddi Haskell: you have a nice name
[14:37] Melch Savon: Wow, welcome Groove!
[14:37] Eddi Haskell: congrats
[14:37] Groove Dagger: thanks
[14:37] Eddi Haskell: if you need clothes let me kknow
[14:37] Groove Dagger: okay i will ㋡
[14:37] Jago Constantine: you've had an account since 2007 tho?
[14:37] Groove Dagger: i got a bunch of freebies from machienenerk or wossname
[14:38] Melch Savon: Hello Marcel
[14:38] Jago Constantine: Hi, Marcel, welcome
[14:38] Marcel Rydell: hi
[14:38] Bryce Galbraith: Hi Marcel
[14:38] Groove Dagger: yes, i installed, got a torch and a chainmail, then got lost and quitted
[14:38] Eddi Haskell: hi marcel!
[14:38] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:38] Groove Dagger: probably lasted 30 minutes, lol
[14:38] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:38] Bryce Galbraith: Well hopefully you'll have a more interesting time this time around :)
[14:39] Groove Dagger: i think so, it seems a bit more streamlined. windows go click and stuff
[14:39] Bryce Galbraith: I remember my first WoW experience....mostly consisting of dying repeatedly.
[14:39] Groove Dagger: i'm actually good at this software stuff... just that SL back then was like trying to fight with MS excel
[14:39] Bryce Galbraith: I think that innoculated me somewhat so I haven't tried WoW since... I just don't think I have the requisite time to invest in that!
[14:39] Jago Constantine: I think with WoW you have to pick your battles
[14:40] Groove Dagger: i started playing CoH a while ago, it was funner than most mmo's i've played
[14:40] Jago Constantine: Anyway ... Eddi hasn't read anything this week, so Melch, how about you?
[14:40] Melch Savon: Yes, but we spoke about it before. I finally read Doctorow's Little Brother
[14:40] Jago Constantine: oh great ... how did you like it?
[14:41] Melch Savon: As always, Cory had an amazing message. I answered some of my own questions from our previous talks, and learnde some new stuff
[14:41] Melch Savon: I think he cheated on getting most internet traffic to being encrypted though
[14:41] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:42] Jago Constantine: I'll take your word on that one
[14:42] Melch Savon: That leads me to think that smart programmers today will encrypt the network traffic for their own programs, so that private conversations won't stand out like they do now
[14:42] Melch Savon: So I put encrypted communications in my current app, though I don't really need them
[14:43] Melch Savon: Beyond that, great book. Also too likely to happen
[14:43] Melch Savon: Americans are much too ready to give up freedom for the illusion of security
[14:43] Groove Dagger: reminds me of the stuff i read at techdirt
[14:43] Melch Savon: techdirt?
[14:43] Groove Dagger: every day about how corporations ban people from whistling on copyrighted tunes
[14:43] Groove Dagger: yes a blog
[14:44] Eddi Haskell: yeh i keep on getting my videos in you tube tagged for content stuff
[14:44] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:44] Groove Dagger: hehe
[14:44] Eddi Haskell: that guy on the cover is jago
[14:45] Melch Savon: Lessig wrote a book, Free Culture, a few years ago addressing that and how it came about
[14:45] Melch Savon: Basically code can find and enforce publishers version of product rights, regardless of the law
[14:45] Jago Constantine: I haven't read that
[14:45] Jago Constantine: good point
[14:46] Melch Savon: So, for example, Alice in Wonderland is clearly out of copright. But Sony Readers don't let you copy its text to a clipboard, or let the reader read it outloud
[14:46] Melch Savon: They are defining the use of cultural public domain to their own ends
[14:46] Melch Savon: interesting stuff
[14:46] Jago Constantine: very
[14:46] Bryce Galbraith: wow
[14:46] Groove Dagger: yes that's exactly the kind of thing the blog covers
[14:47] Bryce Galbraith: what is the blog again?
[14:47] Groove Dagger: techdirt.com
[14:47] Melch Savon: with the DMCA, which makes it illegal to try to circumvent copyright code, fair use no longer applies. The DMCA does not recognize fair use
[14:47] Melch Savon: Yes, just bookmarked it
[14:47] Groove Dagger: i didn't even know it until i randomly started using igoogle, hehe
[14:47] Bryce Galbraith: Thanks for the link....
[14:48] Melch Savon: So essentially companies are now trying to enforce, with code, how the products of the culture are being used, not for the common good, but for their profits
[14:48] Melch Savon: The original purpose of copyright law is totally twisted
[14:48] Jago Constantine: yes
[14:48] Groove Dagger: also, newspapers are trying to copyright news and facts
[14:49] Melch Savon: Exactly -- amazing stuff
[14:49] Jago Constantine: and of course copyright extension
[14:49] Melch Savon: Not many people seem to care either -- which really wierds me out. I talk to them, and they say 'so'?
[14:49] Jago Constantine: mickey mouse and friends
[14:49] Groove Dagger: it's amazing how many people comment on that blog insulting the author and defending the poor widdle corporations
[14:49] Jago Constantine: that's purely for corporate profits
[14:50] Melch Savon: Well, profits are good, but there is a point where it harms the common good
[14:50] Jago Constantine: sure
[14:50] Groove Dagger: yeah
[14:50] Melch Savon: English law in the 1700s recognized that, which is part of why copyright was orginally 17 years with only one etension possible
[14:50] Groove Dagger: then came mickey mouse, lol
[14:51] Jago Constantine: maybe that was related to author lifespan :P
[14:51] Groove Dagger: they turned it to the lifespan, + x years. and kept upping it
[14:51] Melch Savon: It did not cover parodies either -- which is how Disney could take the Steamboat Willile concept from Buster Keaton, and later make it to Mickey Mouse, without paying a dime
[14:51] Groove Dagger: originally, it was more like how pharmaceuticals work: you get n years of exclusivity, then it goes public, whether you are alive or not
[14:51] Melch Savon: Well now it is what, 90 years infinitely renewable in the US?
[14:52] Melch Savon: Groove, exactly
[14:52] Groove Dagger: right now, is author death plus 70 years or so
[14:52] Groove Dagger: which is ridiculous
[14:52] Eddi Haskell: group has an iq of like 150 on average lsitening to you
[14:52] Melch Savon: Law is horribly behind the technology, and lobbyists have put in on a different course
[14:52] Jago Constantine: and if we ever succeed in life extension technology ... it could potentially be centuries even without the +70 years
[14:52] Bryce Galbraith: completely. the patent system is out of control too.
[14:52] Melch Savon: Bull.
[14:53] Jago Constantine: bull what?
[14:53] Melch Savon: 10 to 20 years is plenty to benefit the creator I think. If they want more, create more. How much can one make in 10 years off a popular work?
[14:53] Groove Dagger: an interesting point is that, before copyright, every one of the great works of literature would be infringing it
[14:53] Melch Savon: sorry -- the whole idea of extended like + 70 years
[14:53] Groove Dagger: every single author would be sued by the author before him
[14:54] Groove Dagger: becayse he "copied his idea"
[14:54] Jago Constantine: I hope to read that novel Pride and Prejudice and Zombies soon
[14:54] Bryce Galbraith: Yeah, I have that on my list too....looks interesting.
[14:54] Groove Dagger: that sounds like a great title :D
[14:54] Melch Savon: It's another example of how we should toss the current forms of government and try again. They are becoming enemies of the public good -- and that is really scary
[14:54] Jago Constantine: I wonder if the author's schtick can sustain a whole novel
[14:55] Jago Constantine: it's really just a modified version of pride and prejudice
[14:55] Bryce Galbraith: Yeah... it could be cool or it might just not work too.
[14:55] Groove Dagger: it has good reviews apparently
[14:56] Jago Constantine: Groove, do you want to talk about anything you read recently?
[14:56] Groove Dagger: sure
[14:56] Jago Constantine: I knew you'd come round :P
[14:56] Groove Dagger: well, there are two sci-fi series that are fresh in memory
[14:56] Groove Dagger: the latest i've read, and would at best be pulp sci-fi, is the books of John Carter of Mars
[14:57] Jago Constantine: oh nice
[14:57] Groove Dagger: which btw is in the public domain
[14:57] Jago Constantine: yes
[14:57] Groove Dagger: for anyone who wants to download 'em in guttenberg
[14:57] Jago Constantine: you'd think there'd be a Second Life version of that
[14:57] Jago Constantine: it wouldn't face the problems that the Dune sims did
[14:57] Groove Dagger: the interesting thing about them, is to consider how silly was the whole space-thing considered back in the ... 30s? 40s?can't remember
[14:58] Jago Constantine: maybe 30s
[14:58] Groove Dagger: the science is really whack
[14:58] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:58] Groove Dagger: for instance, it turns out the martians have discovered that light spectrum doesn't have 7 "rays", but 9. and one of those can make giant airships fly
[14:58] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:59] Jago Constantine: yes I remember that
[14:59] Groove Dagger: but it's a fun read. it's very low-tech, with some crazy stuff
[14:59] Groove Dagger: it reminded me of a short story i read in some old compilations of the magazine of Science Fiction and fantasy
[14:59] Bryce Galbraith: Sounds fun... never read the series but I'd like to sometime.
[14:59] Jago Constantine: well they're on gutenberg, so any time :)
[14:59] Groove Dagger: you should, they can be downloaded for free
[15:00] Groove Dagger: i think the last 3 or so books are still copyrighted, but taht still leaves like a dozen free
[15:00] Groove Dagger: this story was incredible: it's the story of Martian astronauts that arrive to Earth
[15:00] Jago Constantine: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/62
[15:00] Groove Dagger: and guess, they discovered that Earth is devoid of life and made up of blue sand
[15:01] Jago Constantine: hmm
[15:01] Groove Dagger: and other silliness. so it's like, 30's pulp martian sci-fi
[15:01] Jago Constantine: so what was the explanation for that?
[15:01] Groove Dagger: the explanation? that's what Martians thought so they made silly sci-fi about earth and blue sand
[15:02] Jago Constantine: ahhhh
[15:02] Groove Dagger: plus, you could grow a money tree if you planted money in the sand
[15:02] Jago Constantine: lol
[15:02] Bryce Galbraith: oh now that would be nice!
[15:02] Groove Dagger: lol
[15:02] Jago Constantine: I get it ... it's like an inverse of our seeing 'seas' on mars
[15:02] Groove Dagger: exactly
[15:03] Jago Constantine: the martians, without seas, imagine blue deserts
[15:03] Groove Dagger: brb
[15:03] Jago Constantine: ok
[15:03] Bryce Galbraith: That does sound kind of cool though -- blue deserts...
[15:03] Jago Constantine: yeah
[15:03] Groove Dagger: back
[15:03] Groove Dagger: the other stuff i've read that i remember is all the neuromancer stuff
[15:03] Jago Constantine: cool, gibson
[15:04] Groove Dagger: i only read it about a couple of years ago
[15:04] Groove Dagger: i don't have many thoughts on that, right now, tho :D
[15:04] Jago Constantine: no worries
[15:04] Groove Dagger: except that it was cool stuff. Gibson said
[15:04] Jago Constantine: the hour is up and it's time for breakfast for me :)
[15:04] Jago Constantine: go on, groove
[15:04] Groove Dagger: hehe
[15:04] Groove Dagger: "had i know anything about computers, i wouldn't have written it"
[15:04] Jago Constantine: lol
[15:05] Jago Constantine: he will be the edgar rice burroughs of cyberpunk :P
[15:05] Groove Dagger: yeah
[15:05] Groove Dagger: funny, he pretty much invented cyberpunk, and most computer fans try to emulate him
[15:05] Jago Constantine: yes, it's huge
[15:05] Jago Constantine: I will try to get a venue in Insilico next saturday
[15:06] Groove Dagger: he made more realistic stuff later, something called the Bridge series iirc
[15:06] Groove Dagger: ok
[15:06] Bryce Galbraith: Yeah, I should head out and get on with some other things I need to work on. Nice talking with you all!
[15:06] Jago Constantine: hopefully I'll have got this land swapped for a parcel in zindra by then
[15:06] Groove Dagger: it was nice talking
[15:06] Melch Savon: bye al
[15:06] Eddi Haskell: would anyone want to write about sci fi in sl in the magazine?
[15:06] Jago Constantine: thanks for coming :)
[15:06] Groove Dagger: cool runnings
[15:06] Bryce Galbraith: Thanks for hosting :)
[15:06] Bryce Galbraith: Bye all
[15:06] Eddi Haskell: bye!
[15:06] Jago Constantine: bye, bryce
[15:07] Eddi Haskell: see you next time groove!
[15:07] Jago Constantine: thanks for joining the group, groove :)
[15:07] Groove Dagger: see yous
[15:07] Groove Dagger: ㋡
[15:07] Eddi Haskell: jago im heading out now
[15:07] Jago Constantine: cya!

21 February 2009: Liberation Square

[13:58] Jago Constantine: Hi, Lewis
[13:58] Lewis Luminos: hi Jago
[13:58] Jago Constantine: Thanks for coming :)
[13:58] Lewis Luminos: youre welcome
[13:58] Jago Constantine: I thought we'd have it in the park in the rotunda / Hi, Xeno :)
[13:59] Xeno Octavia: hi this the sci fi-ers
[13:59] Jago Constantine: Yes it is :) / Over here :) / try clicking closer to the inner edge, Xeno
[14:01] Lewis Luminos: if you stand inside the ring facing the seat it should work
[14:01] Xeno Octavia: lol we meet out in the street!!ty
[14:01] Jago Constantine: It's a little laggy, I've been building
[14:01] Lewis Luminos: is this place all new?
[14:01] Jago Constantine: It was good to see some replies on the forum, I didn't know if anyone would come / Yes, well, built since february / Anyway, I've never even been in a book club before, so I'm just winging it here
[14:02] Lewis Luminos: me neither actually
[14:03] Jago Constantine: Maybe I'll start by saying what I'm reading / I've just finished a couple of Neal Asher novels / in his Polity series / He owes a lot to Iain Banks I think / Have either of you read him?
[14:03] Lewis Luminos: no
[14:04] Xeno Octavia: i havnt
[14:04] Lewis Luminos: keep meaning to
[14:04] Jago Constantine: Ok, well like Banks, they're in a human society run largely by AIs / Maybe a bit more actiony than banks
[14:04] Xeno Octavia: how are u on Mary Doria Russell
[14:05] Jago Constantine: I read The Sparrow and Children of God / Has she written any sci fi since?
[14:05] Xeno Octavia: kool i'm reading Dreamers of the Day
[14:05] Jago Constantine: Sci fi?
[14:05] Xeno Octavia: is it sci fi --maybe
[14:05] Jago Constantine: Heh what is it about so far?
[14:07] Xeno Octavia: ive read it --wont twell where may become sci fi --but is about pre WW1 america and the peace conf in mid east 1921 and then ---
[14:07] Lewis Luminos: ah I love books that cross genre boundaries
[14:08] Jago Constantine: Sounds interesting
[14:08] Xeno Octavia: actually a western divide of mid east conf
[14:08] Jago Constantine: So ... alternate history?
[14:08] Ingrid Northmead: oh wow / hey Lewis
[14:08] Jago Constantine: Hey Ingrid :)
[14:08] Lewis Luminos: hi Ingrid :)
[14:08] Jago Constantine: Thanks for coming
[14:08] Ingrid Northmead: fancy meeting you here
[14:08] Lewis Luminos: lol
[14:09] Xeno Octavia: no actual history but alternates after history and is about how our sucky worls came about
[14:09] Jago Constantine: ok
[14:09] Xeno Octavia: hi ingrid
[14:09] Ingrid Northmead: hey hey
[14:10] Xeno Octavia: am also reading James Hillman's A Terrible Love of War / which takes off where russell leAVES OFF
[14:10] Jago Constantine: Was it a deliberate choice to pick those two at once? / Or a coincidence? / Hey Toad :) / I should ask if this time and day is good for everyone?
[14:12] Xeno Octavia: YES HI TOAD
[14:12] Jago Constantine: lol Xeno
[14:13] Xeno Octavia: dont kno --i b erratic
[14:13] Lewis Luminos: its good for me / although once I start my own little group, I might be late sometimes
[14:14] Jago Constantine: Oh, your philosophy group?
[14:14] Lewis Luminos: *nod*
[14:14] Xeno Octavia: yes jago they go together they were possib choices for another book club --which chose dreamers
[14:14] Jago Constantine: Nice
[14:14] ToadOfToadHall Aquila: bye guys -- server slow.
[14:14] Jago Constantine: Ok Toad, sorry bout that / What are you reading atm, Lewis?
[14:15] Lewis Luminos: I'm about 4/5ths through Perdido Street Station
[14:15] Jago Constantine: Oh nice :)
[14:15] Lewis Luminos: by China Mieville / Really good book, classic sort of sci-fi plot, but fairly low tech / grungy setting
[14:15] Jago Constantine: I loved it / I liked The Scar better
[14:15] Lewis Luminos: Havent read any of his others yet / but I certainy will do after this
[14:16] Jago Constantine: It's good cos they're so thick, you get value for money lol
[14:16] Lewis Luminos: yeah :)
[14:16] Jago Constantine: Seriously, it's a great steampunk sort of setting
[14:16] Lewis Luminos: The characters are so well-thought-out too
[14:17] Jago Constantine: yes, they have depth
[14:17] Lewis Luminos: brb 2 min
[14:17] Jago Constantine: ok / Ingrid? Read any good books?
[14:18] Ingrid Northmead: Oh, actually I've been meaning to check out Michael Moorcock.. have heard very good things about him and read some of his essays but I'm a bit overwhelmed at where to start
[14:18] Jago Constantine: I love his Dancers at the End of Time series best / They're a lot of fun
[14:18] julo Dixon: hello everybody
[14:19] Jago Constantine: Welcome, Julo :)
[14:19] julo Dixon: ty jago
[14:19] Lewis Luminos: back
[14:19] Jago Constantine: We're going round the circle saying what we're reading / Is this how AA works? / lol
[14:19] Xeno Octavia: hi julo
[14:19] julo Dixon: hi xeno
[14:20] Ingrid Northmead: yes and after the meeting we all read trashy fantasy novels and then feel ashamed
[14:20] Xeno Octavia: no we skipping the porno
[14:20] Jago Constantine: lol / You can visit my sex furniture museum after if you want porno
[14:20] julo Dixon: lol
[14:20] Lewis Luminos: I never feel ashamed of trashy fantasy :)
[14:20] Jago Constantine: Heh, well China Mieville is arguably fantasy / not trashy tho
[14:21] Lewis Luminos: yeah but the storyline is pure sci-fi, / Alien-hunting
[14:21] Jago Constantine: the lines blur, and similar with Moorcock
[14:21] Lewis Luminos: *nods* / like I said, I enjoy books where the lines are blurred
[14:22] Jago Constantine: So Ingrid, I'd recomment Moorcock's Dancers series, or actually Gloriana / That's a stand alone novel set in an alternate history England
[14:22] Ingrid Northmead: well I'll check those out then... always sort of the matter of cracking open a certain universe, if that makes sense
[14:22] Jago Constantine: it doesn't quite :P / the matter?
[14:23] Ingrid Northmead: haha well never mind then :p
[14:24] Jago Constantine: So Julo ... what book is on your night stand at the moment?
[14:24] julo Dixon: oooo i m reading nothing
[14:24] Xeno Octavia: i remember that was quite good
[14:24] julo Dixon: just want to listen you
[14:24] Jago Constantine: aw shucks :)
[14:25] Xeno Octavia: dont remember who wrote it tho
[14:25] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:25] Lewis Luminos: it was that guy, Anon. / Very prolific writer
[14:25] Ingrid Northmead: He's so prolific.
[14:25] Jago Constantine: I should mention that Neal Asher needs a better editor
[14:25] Ingrid Northmead: oh jinx.
[14:25] Lewis Luminos: :)
[14:25] Jago Constantine: I've never read a major writer with such inelegant prose / and simple mistakes too, like new for knew
[14:26] Lewis Luminos: heh try Roger Zelazny
[14:26] Jago Constantine: really? I read a few of his / Lord of Light
[14:26] Lewis Luminos: Nine Princes is full of errors
[14:27] Jago Constantine: I couldn't get into the Amber series / at all
[14:27] Ingrid Northmead: worst I've ever read was Mary Gentle
[14:27] Lewis Luminos: I've been warned off hers.
[14:27] Jago Constantine: Really? I recently read Golden Witchbreed / It seemed ok
[14:27] Xeno Octavia: have u read Wilson's 'Spin' and/or 'Axis'
[14:27] Ingrid Northmead: oh I haven't read that one, but I didn't finish any of her books that I started, which is really unusual for me
[14:28] Jago Constantine: I LOVED her book Ash / Loved it / one of my favourites / I read Spin, it was ok
[14:28] Xeno Octavia: gess ok not very good
[14:28] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:29] Ingrid Northmead: Ooh, SL drama emergency is calling my name. Sorry guys, gotta run :)
[14:29] Jago Constantine: It won awards obviously, so some people like it
[14:29] Lewis Luminos: lol ok
[14:29] Ingrid Northmead: see ya~
[14:29] Jago Constantine: Cya later Ingrid, mayne next week
[14:29] Lewis Luminos: bye Ingrid / Out of curiosity, who here has read Snow Crash?
[14:29] Jago Constantine: Me :)
[14:29] Lewis Luminos: :)
[14:29] Jago Constantine: It's kind of de rigeur for SL isn't it :P
[14:30] Lewis Luminos: yeah thats why I asked / I read it a couple of months ago / thought it was pretty good
[14:30] Jago Constantine: It's another of my favourites / And Diamond Age
[14:30] Lewis Luminos: havent read any of his others
[14:31] Jago Constantine: The last one I read was Anathem, which was ... monumental :P
[14:32] Lewis Luminos: I dont think my local library has any of his. :(
[14:32] Jago Constantine: It wasn't his best, but the world building was great
[14:32] Lewis Luminos: I loved the Snow Crash world
[14:33] Jago Constantine: Yeah Snow Crash's burbclaves are a lot of fun
[14:33] Sharon Raynier: Hi
[14:33] Jago Constantine: Hi, Sharon, welcome :)
[14:33] Lewis Luminos: hi Sharon
[14:33] Sharon Raynier: I don't know too much about science fiction - I'm challenged enough dealing with reality lol
[14:33] Xeno Octavia: snow crASH WAS MUCHLY kooler than Neuromancer
[14:34] Jago Constantine: Yeah, I've never been into William Gibson that much / Especially his later things
[14:34] Lewis Luminos: I tried Neuromancer and gave it up / brb again
[14:34] Jago Constantine: What was the last science fiction you read, Sharon? / Sharon?
[14:36] Sharon Raynier: Sorry
[14:36] Jago Constantine: No worries :)
[14:36] Sharon Raynier: : - ) / Did you ask something?
[14:37] Jago Constantine: What was the last sci fi you read?
[14:37] Sharon Raynier: I am hear to listen more than contribute / The last sci fi....
[14:37] Jago Constantine: That's ok :)
[14:37] julo Dixon: lol like me
[14:37] Sharon Raynier: Well in all this talk about Abraham Lincoln these weeks / I am reminded of a Twilight Zone story I read years ago
[14:37] Lewis Luminos: back
[14:38] Jago Constantine: Oh?
[14:38] Sharon Raynier: especially a tragic one / What if someone were transported in time to right before a historic event occurred, / and the person had knowledge, what would / be the impact of the person being at that place and time
[14:38] julo Dixon: ok i m going bye
[14:39] Xeno Octavia: intressin meet but i must leave - TY jago
[14:39] Jago Constantine: Thanks for coming, Julo!
[14:39] Lewis Luminos: bye julo
[14:39] Jago Constantine: Maybe next week?
[14:39] Sharon Raynier: take care
[14:39] Lewis Luminos: Your story Sharon, reminds me of another I read / Changewar, by Fritz Leiber / all about timetravelling
[14:40] Sharon Raynier: What happened in that story?
[14:40] Lewis Luminos: and two rival factions at war with each other, keep going back and changing things
[14:40] Jago Constantine: Sounds familiar
[14:40] Lewis Luminos: and the other faction goes back further and changes their change...
[14:41] Sharon Raynier: Oh Australia, eh?
[14:41] Lewis Luminos: its fascinating
[14:41] Jago Constantine: Yes :) / I think there are a few series about time wars
[14:41] Sharon Raynier: I'm in Florida USA / There's a movie on HBO tonight about the Iraq War I think / about an officer who is escorting the body of a private, an ordinary soldier, home after being killed in action
[14:42] Jago Constantine: ok? / Is it science fiction?
[14:42] Sharon Raynier: I am really looking forward to seeing it but I imagine it will be sad / There's a lot of people who would like to be able to go back in time and change things about that war
[14:43] Jago Constantine: True / It would be interesting to see or read something like that about Iraq / If you went back in time and said there are no WMDs / would you be believed? / Oh, Lewis (and Sharon) / If you can't get books in your local library, you might try Bookmooch
[14:44] Sharon Raynier: Or that Saddam is not the threat that Bush is making him out to be
[14:44] Lewis Luminos: whats that?
[14:44] Jago Constantine: It's a book sharing website
[14:45] Sharon Raynier: Bookmooch - that's a funny name
[14:45] Jago Constantine: You offer to share books / and you get points for the ones you send out / and spend points to get books posted from other people
[14:45] Lewis Luminos: hmm does it depend pn having a reliable postal service? A lot of things go missing here, I dont trust 'em
[14:46] Jago Constantine: heh well, I just got a book from the UK, and sent one to singapore and they both arrived / it depends if you trust your postal service
[14:46] Lewis Luminos: I think its a local issue here Jago / a dodgy postman or something
[14:46] Sharon Raynier: I'll have to look into that / I have a ton of books I don't really look at
[14:46] Jago Constantine: Yes well packages could be tempting
[14:46] Sharon Raynier: Where are you Lewis?
[14:46] Jago Constantine: I'm rather strict with my books
[14:47] Lewis Luminos: UK
[14:47] Jago Constantine: I look at them and say will I ever read this again? / Then I take them to the book exchange
[14:47] Lewis Luminos: I have plenty at home I've not read yet so I'm good for a while
[14:47] Sharon Raynier: book exchagne?
[14:47] Jago Constantine: Hi, Charr
[14:48] Sharon Raynier: Hi Charr!
[14:48] Jago Constantine: A store that buys and sells used books?
[14:48] charr Philter: Hello Jago / Hi Sharon
[14:48] Arii Arida: Hello all :))
[14:48] Jago Constantine: Hi, Arii, sorry I didn't notice you over there
[14:48] Sharon Raynier: The major place in my home which I need to declutter is my books / Hi Arii / I tend to hang on to them
[14:49] Jago Constantine: Yeah, books take up so much space so quickly / We've been talking about what we're reading at the moment / Arii, got anything good going?
[14:50] Lewis Luminos: hi Arii
[14:50] Jago Constantine: Nice sit pose, by the way
[14:50] Arii Arida: lol....oops
[14:50] Jago Constantine: No, I wasn't making fun, it looks cool
[14:50] Arii Arida: well...I just finished Greg Iles Footprints of God
[14:51] Jago Constantine: I haven't read anything by him / Is it good?
[14:51] Arii Arida: I liked it...was a fairly easy read.....scary waqht can happen with computers and mans ambition to rule the world
[14:52] Jago Constantine: Is it part of a series?
[14:52] Arii Arida: Dan Brown recomends this book / no
[14:52] Jago Constantine: I like Dan Brown a little / he's kind of sci fi too
[14:52] Arii Arida: right now I'm reading Deception Point / so far...it's pretty good
[14:53] Jago Constantine: Is that the meteorite one?
[14:53] Arii Arida: again...about science ect / yup
[14:53] Jago Constantine: I get it confused with Digital Fortress
[14:53] Arii Arida: dont tell me anthing
[14:53] Lewis Luminos: I like dan brown too :)
[14:53] Arii Arida: about the meterite,lol
[14:53] Jago Constantine: Technothrillers like that are really science fiction in the present :P / Hey, Charr, how about you? Reading anything good?
[14:54] Arii Arida: yes...I am a huge sci fi fan.....so I like that kind of read
[14:54] charr Philter: so are we camping?
[14:54] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:55] Sharon Raynier: Do two things at once / That would make sense - to have a club meeting at someone's camping bench lol
[14:55] Arii Arida: lol....I agree
[14:55] Jago Constantine: heh I think the good company is enough value without camping chairs :)
[14:55] Sharon Raynier: Absolutely
[14:56] Arii Arida: oh...you had to take the high road.lol
[14:56] Lewis Luminos: anyway in an hour you'd only make L$1, at the going rate
[14:56] charr Philter: so are we having a book club sit in?
[14:56] Sharon Raynier: My son found a Transformers avatar of the character "Bumblebee" here in 2nd life / He loves it / His hero is Tony Stark
[14:56] Jago Constantine: wow
[14:56] Sharon Raynier: of Ironman / Do you know the story?
[14:56] Lewis Luminos: heh Tony Stark is my hero too :)
[14:57] Jago Constantine: I actually have to run, folks / Thanks so much for coming
[14:57] Arii Arida: ok
[14:57] Lewis Luminos: aw ok
[14:57] Sharon Raynier: OK Jago - very nice to meet you
[14:57] Jago Constantine: I have a wedding to attend
[14:57] Lewis Luminos: It was fun
[14:57] Arii Arida: I'm sorry I was late
[14:57] Jago Constantine: Same time next week
[14:57] Lewis Luminos: have a good day Jago
[14:57] Jago Constantine: Search for science fiction in events
[14:57] Sharon Raynier: Congratulations to the Bride and Groom / Thanks Jago
[14:57] Arii Arida: I was at a Dr who event last night
[14:57] Sharon Raynier: Cool