30 January 2010

[13:33] Kghia Gherardi: Hi there, Jago
[13:35] Kghia Gherardi: Hi Brett
[13:35] Brett Rascon: hi
[13:36] Kghia Gherardi: HI yyvony
[13:36] yyvonny Wylder: Hello :))
[13:36] yyvonny's Free Translator: Hello:))
[13:36] Kghia Gherardi: There is a science fiction discussion in about 25 minutes
[13:37] yyvonny Wylder: yes
[13:37] yyvonny's Free Translator: yes
[13:37] Kghia Gherardi: it will be in the other room, lead by Jago. But you are welcome to explore Bookstacks. :)
[13:38] Calliope Sweetwater: brb
[13:38] Kghia Gherardi: ok
[13:43] yyvonny Wylder: maybe if you have the time you can tell me how
[13:43] yyvonny Wylder: im not english you know
[13:43] yyvonny Wylder: i have no hud
[13:44] yyvonny Wylder: ok but nothing happent
[13:47] yyvonny Wylder: its your turn dear
[13:47] yyvonny Wylder: yes
[13:47] Brett Rascon: ok
[13:47] Brett Rascon: I'll try and start
[13:47] yyvonny Wylder: but you must make a \word of it i think
[13:48] Brett Rascon: ok, that's my word
[13:48] Brett Rascon: your turn
[13:49] Brett Rascon: you must click on a square
[13:49] Brett Rascon: then click a letter
[13:49] yyvonny Wylder: ram
[13:50] yyvonny Wylder: i say ram
[13:50] yyvonny Wylder: in local
[13:51] yyvonny Wylder: dont you answer me
[13:51] yyvonny Wylder: what is a quar
[13:51] Brett Rascon: the board is made up of lots of squares
[13:51] Brett Rascon: yes ?
[13:53] yyvonny Wylder: what is a quarewe
[13:54] Jago Constantine: Hi, Zobeid :)
[13:54] yyvonny Wylder: like a fra,\me
[13:54] Zobeid Zuma: Hii
[13:55] yyvonny Wylder: you give me a headache i must allways everythig at least 3 times ask before you give a clear answer
[13:55] Jago Constantine: Hi, Gilles :)
[13:55] yyvonny Wylder: its your turn
[13:56] Gilles Kuhn: hello
[13:56] Jago Constantine: Cool avatar!
[13:56] Gilles Kuhn: thanks :-)
[13:56] Jago Constantine: Are you here for the sci fi meeting?
[13:56] Gilles Kuhn: indeed
[13:57] Jago Constantine: Ok we'll start in a few minutes when some more people show up :)
[13:57] Jago Constantine: Take a seat when you rez
[13:57] Zobeid Zuma: I wish I could get my good computer back from the shop, it takes so long for stuff to rez on this one.
[13:57] yyvonny Wylder: the word dont show up
[13:57] Jago Constantine: well this sim is slow rezzing anyway usually
[13:58] yyvonny Wylder: tram
[13:58] yyvonny Wylder: they are goin from my bord
[13:58] Jago Constantine: hey eddi :)
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: hi jago
[14:00] Jago Constantine: We're up to 76 group members in the sci fi group :)
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: is eveyrone laggy or is it me?
[14:01] Gilles Kuhn: i'm afraid its you
[14:01] Jago Constantine: I find if you sit you don't get lag walking around :)
[14:01] Zobeid Zuma: I haven't been reading, haven't been coming here. . . But I thought, maybe if I come and listen, it'll help motivate me to pick up a book.
[14:01] Jago Constantine: Sure :)
[14:01] Jago Constantine: Anyway if you're new, the format of the meeting is that we take turns discussing what we read last
[14:02] Jago Constantine: I'll start - this week I had the chance to read 7th Son: Descent by J. C. Hutchins
[14:02] yyvonny Wylder: thanks
[14:03] Jago Constantine: This novel apparently began as a podcast and was published
[14:03] Jago Constantine: so I suppose its an example of an author building up popularity online
[14:03] Jago Constantine: one moment
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: im trying to mute that object
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: the game board
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: i think it worked
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: you can mute objects
[14:05] Jago Constantine: oh I was just going to ask them to stop until later
[14:06] Eddi Haskell: well im not sure it works but i have not had a green notice in a few mintues
[14:07] Jago Constantine: Ok anyway
[14:07] Jago Constantine: hi, Djudson
[14:07] Calliope Sweetwater: Apologies. I can't stay. Rl calls
[14:07] yyvonny Wylder: i bin stopt
[14:07] Jago Constantine: Anyway 7th son is more of a technothriller than sci fi, I suppose
[14:08] Jago Constantine: It begins with the president being assassinated by a 4-year old
[14:08] yyvonny Wylder: i diddnt know that we not may play the game
[14:08] yyvonny Wylder: we must buy one from us one
[14:08] Jago Constantine: and revolves around a group of men who turn out to be clones
[14:09] Jago Constantine: They'd all be leading their own very different loves
[14:09] Jago Constantine: Hi, Jacobe - I'm sitting here :)
[14:09] Jago Constantine: different lives
[14:10] yyvonny Wylder: yes only what is the price
[14:10] Jago Constantine: I didn't really get into the book, but I was curious about the description of how the clones were made
[14:10] Jago Constantine: and the ramifications
[14:10] yyvonny Wylder: i like scrabble much more
[14:10] Jago Constantine: A secret government project raised a boy to about his early teens I think
[14:11] Jago Constantine: then copied his memories into the 7 clones
[14:11] yyvonny Wylder: then you have both your ow letters
[14:11] Jago Constantine: and raised them (boys from brazil style) with a series of very similar foster parents and lifestyles
[14:11] yyvonny Wylder: you can find it yourself to
[14:12] yyvonny Wylder: ok
[14:12] Jago Constantine: I enjoyed those aspects better than the hunt for the assassin plot
[14:12] Jago Constantine: the way they related to the people who they thought were their dead parents
[14:13] Jago Constantine: who they remembered to be their parents
[14:13] Jago Constantine: anyway, I don't really recommend it unless you're into clones :P
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: thats what i tell people about redgrave skins
[14:14] Jago Constantine: Again, 7th Son by J. C. Hutchins
[14:14] Jago Constantine: Ok, um DJudson - have you read anything recently you'd like to talk about?
[14:15] DJudson Baran: yes i just finished tad williams Otherland 4 books about a million words
[14:15] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:15] Jago Constantine: I liked them but I think I only read 2 of the series before burning out
[14:16] DJudson Baran: it takes patents. but the computer aspects are amazing
[14:16] DJudson Baran: it talke SL about five steps ahead
[14:16] Jago Constantine: pardon?
[14:17] Zobeid Zuma: It's about a virtual world?
[14:17] Jago Constantine: yes
[14:17] Jago Constantine: a series of them from memory
[14:17] DJudson Baran: it also takes the "perales of pauline" out in every chapter
[14:18] Jago Constantine: My favourite world from the book, only seen briefly
[14:18] Jago Constantine: Is one in which two people having been um roleplaying as rulers in the land of oz
[14:18] Jago Constantine: maybe the scarecrow and the tin man waging war?
[14:19] Jago Constantine: the emerald city is a green-painted concrete gulag
[14:19] Zobeid Zuma: heh. . . And that brings to mind A Barnstormer In Oz. :)
[14:19] DJudson Baran: yes, plus alice in wonderland
[14:20] Jago Constantine: one line stuck with me, the scarecrow giving an oz version of the line from bladerunner
[14:20] Jago Constantine: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
[14:20] Jago Constantine: I forget the oz references lol
[14:21] Jago Constantine: Also now that I think of it there was a seen from a giant kitchen, like the greenies sim here in Second LIfe
[14:21] Jago Constantine: *scene :P
[14:21] Zobeid Zuma: oh, it's been a long time since I was there :)
[14:21] Jago Constantine: anyway, what did you think DJudson?
[14:22] DJudson Baran: At one time I had over a thousand paper back sf books
[14:22] Jago Constantine: wow
[14:22] DJudson Baran: but there is no market for them
[14:23] Zobeid Zuma: I know what you mean
[14:23] DJudson Baran: I do have most of EC Tubb "dumarest of terra" series
[14:24] Jago Constantine: I never read those
[14:24] DJudson Baran: If any of you would like them contact me and I can send them free + postage
[14:24] DJudson Baran: they are from the 1970's
[14:25] Zobeid Zuma: good era for SF. . . before all the cyberpunk stuff took over
[14:26] Jago Constantine: have you considered bookmooch or bookcrossing?
[14:26] Jago Constantine: if you were looking to give away books to good homes
[14:26] Jago Constantine: hehe
[14:26] Jago Constantine: Hello, Simeon :)
[14:27] Simeon Bookmite: hi
[14:27] Jago Constantine: Nice skirt!
[14:27] Jago Constantine: ;)
[14:27] Simeon Bookmite: if you have knees you should flaunt them
[14:27] Jago Constantine: Ok, Gilles - have you read any good SF lately?
[14:28] Gilles Kuhn: not really lately
[14:28] Gilles Kuhn: last good sf i read was david brin
[14:28] Jago Constantine: how about the last thing you read?
[14:29] Jago Constantine: oh which one?
[14:29] Gilles Kuhn: but in fact it was a reraed of the first one of the uplift serie
[14:29] Gilles Kuhn: sundivers
[14:29] Jago Constantine: oh someone else was reading that series
[14:29] Jago Constantine: hmm not here today
[14:29] Gilles Kuhn: very good one i must say
[14:30] Jago Constantine: I'm a big fan of that series
[14:30] DJudson Baran: have to go. see you next week
[14:30] Eddi Haskell: bye judson
[14:30] Gilles Kuhn: the general frame is the idea that their is contact with a very old and developped galactic multi racial civilization
[14:31] Gilles Kuhn: and that all the race were artificially uplifted to sapiency by others older race
[14:32] Gilles Kuhn: with the idea that human were not uplifted but evolveed alone to sapiency which make of thema totally exceptionnal case (anthropocentris as always...)
[14:32] Gilles Kuhn: anthropocentrism*
[14:32] Industria Dowler: Sounds interesting.
[14:32] Jago Constantine: I was just reading a review of the uplift series which complained a little about that
[14:33] Zobeid Zuma: I did read one of them myself, the one with all the dolphins.
[14:33] Jago Constantine: how the humans were shown as so special :
[14:33] Zobeid Zuma: It's very much a space opera style. :)
[14:33] Gilles Kuhn: well someone pleas me fid me asf book that dont give soem special status to humans.....
[14:33] Industria Dowler: Seriously. :)
[14:34] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:34] Gilles Kuhn: rahhh the chat interface in sl is the baddest in te world
[14:34] Jago Constantine: can it be a book entirely without humans? xD
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: well
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: i think you can transliterate koko the chimp
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: make it into a book
[14:34] Gilles Kuhn: how they ca&nnot understand that bloody text treatment must be local and not in their bloody lahggy servers
[14:35] Eddi Haskell: she has a vocabulary of 150 words
[14:35] Simeon Bookmite: thomas Disch springs to mind
[14:35] Simeon Bookmite: that book where aliens plant earth with food crops
[14:35] Jago Constantine: The Genocides :)
[14:35] Jago Constantine: yes
[14:36] Jago Constantine: great book
[14:36] Jago Constantine: the last line is awesome
[14:36] Simeon Bookmite: The Genocides
[14:36] Jago Constantine: Anything by HP Lovecraft also :)
[14:37] Eddi Haskell: why dont you recommend a story for some of us to read andduscuss by him
[14:38] Jago Constantine: Its funny because science fiction is a genre that you'd think would express the post-copernican dethroning of the human race from a significant place in the universe
[14:38] Simeon Bookmite: actually our book current sunday discusion group is doing a book of sherlock holmes?lovecroft crosovers
[14:38] Gilles Kuhn: ia Cthuly Phtagn ;-)
[14:38] Jago Constantine: but that probably wouldn't sell very well
[14:38] Jago Constantine: I'll think about that eddi
[14:39] Zobeid Zuma: It remains to be seen how signficant our place is. . . I'd say not much, thus far. But I like to imagine we have potential. :)
[14:39] Simeon Bookmite: becomeing alien is I think a good Humans are nothing special book
[14:40] Simeon Bookmite: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Becoming-Alien-Ben-Bova-Presents/dp/0812503139
[14:40] Gilles Kuhn: potential for what or for whom?
[14:41] Jago Constantine: Also with regard to human chauvinism, I'm reminded of John Campbell who only liked stories where humans beat the aliens
[14:41] Zobeid Zuma: Potential to create a civilization that spreads over a large area and lasts a long time, if nothing else.
[14:41] Jago Constantine: Which famously lead to Isaac Asimov writing the Foundation series set in a human only galaxy
[14:42] Simeon Bookmite: he had a point folks like their side to win
[14:42] Jago Constantine: well I think campbell didn't like anything with superior aliens which is more the point
[14:43] Jago Constantine: but it seems implausible given the age of the galaxy that there aren't more advanced civilisations
[14:43] Industria Dowler: People might find it hard to relate to the characters if they aren't like them. Which is boring to me. :)
[14:43] Industria Dowler: Where's the fun in that?
[14:43] Zobeid Zuma: No it doesn't. We don't have enough information to even estimate the odds of that.
[14:44] Industria Dowler: I wouldn't mind trying my hand at attempting to relate to a giant, ugly space monster that eats people.
[14:44] Jago Constantine: well I think we can look at the amount of time it took humans to evolve
[14:44] Simeon Bookmite: i think it had more to do with getting people to read another issue but you might be right
[14:44] Jago Constantine: and given our star isn't that old
[14:45] Gilles Kuhn: well about that our civilisation is only 10000 year old and we have communication since only 100 years so we are probably nowhere and cannot even imagine what a advanced civ is like
[14:45] Jago Constantine: older stars could have spawned races much earier
[14:45] Zobeid Zuma: Really old stars didn't have planets, they were too metal-poor.
[14:45] Jago Constantine: well they wouldn't have to be that much older even
[14:45] Jago Constantine: a civilisation 100,000 years ahead of our own
[14:45] Jago Constantine: which is trivial
[14:46] Zobeid Zuma: And it may be a fantastical fluke of luck that allowed us to evolve. No telling how many statistical hurdles we've already cleared. . .
[14:46] Gilles Kuhn: which i ridiculous even therer are probably intelligent life forms millions of years older
[14:46] Zobeid Zuma: So maybe intelligence is vanishingly rare.
[14:46] Jago Constantine: personally I incline towards rare intelligence
[14:46] Simeon Bookmite: inteligence has not been around long enought to prove its worth as a survival trait.
[14:46] Gilles Kuhn: well zobeid thats a very anthropocentric argument
[14:47] Jago Constantine: I think in the short term if we're going to meet other intelligent beings, they'll be ones we create or uplift
[14:47] Zobeid Zuma: Yes. . . Any argument about the likelihood of intelligence has to be anthropocentric.
[14:47] Gilles Kuhn: if and our science assume that nature work everywhere the same there must be a lot of life and intelligent life too up there
[14:47] Zobeid Zuma: Because even if it's vanishingly rare, only the races that make it past all those statistical hurdles are capable of pondering the likelihood. :)
[14:48] Simeon Bookmite: suspect we see intelgence as a social construct that the aliens will embrace
[14:48] Gilles Kuhn: i disagree life is prbably the rule not the exception autoorganisation of matter is staggering
[14:48] Simeon Bookmite: ie they will want to comunicate socialise bargain
[14:49] Zobeid Zuma: I personally suspect that *life* is pretty common, but intelligent life is quite rare.
[14:49] Gilles Kuhn: why so zobeid?
[14:49] Zobeid Zuma: Life appeared early in Earth's history, practically as soon as the planet was capable of supporting it.
[14:49] Simeon Bookmite: but they may be no more intersted in things outside their speices than we are in trees
[14:49] Gilles Kuhn: i love tres !
[14:49] Zobeid Zuma: I'm quite confident we'll find life on Mars too.
[14:50] Gilles Kuhn: trees*
[14:50] Simeon Bookmite: Just a something to ignore or pour weed killer on
[14:50] Gilles Kuhn: not so confident about that but trace of extinguished life probably
[14:50] Jago Constantine: You should read blindsight Simeon
[14:50] Jago Constantine: by peter watts
[14:50] Jago Constantine: or permanence by karl schroeder
[14:51] Zobeid Zuma: If there was ever life on Mars in the past, there will be some surviving.
[14:51] Simeon Bookmite: al la disch
[14:51] Zobeid Zuma: The only question is how deep you have to dig to find it.
[14:51] Jago Constantine: or um ... a story by bruce sterling
[14:51] Jago Constantine: Swarm
[14:52] Jago Constantine: all featuring non-conscious extraterrestrials
[14:52] Jago Constantine: civilisations
[14:52] Gilles Kuhn: which author jago?
[14:52] Simeon Bookmite: swarm that a short it rings a bell
[14:52] Jago Constantine: Blindsight - Peter Watts, Permanence - Karl Schroeder, Swarm - Bruce Sterling
[14:53] Jago Constantine: Swarm is a short story from the shaper/mechanist universe
[14:53] Simeon Bookmite: nods read it
[14:53] Simeon Bookmite: gotit from fictionwise
[14:53] Jago Constantine: so all those books explore the idea that intelligence isn't necessarily a survival trait for a species
[14:54] Jago Constantine: or um consciousness
[14:54] Simeon Bookmite: think we are very likely not to be human by the time we reach the stars
[14:55] Jago Constantine: well I've said here before I don't think we'll be sending humans to the stars like spam in a can ;P
[14:55] Zobeid Zuma: Well, not in a purely biological sense. . . But it will still be human civilization.
[14:55] Jago Constantine: It will be uploaded minds or something
[14:56] Jago Constantine: but yes, human as zobeid said
[14:56] Jago Constantine: part of a human clade
[14:56] Simeon Bookmite: think our minds will have changed
[14:56] Eddi Haskell: wha is a clade
[14:57] Jago Constantine: it is a term from biology
[14:57] Jago Constantine: an organism and its descendants
[14:57] Eddi Haskell: i looked it up
[14:57] Jago Constantine: so a human clade would be the human race and any races we spawn
[14:58] Jago Constantine: even, I think, uplifted animals
[14:58] Jago Constantine: or conscious machines
[14:58] Zobeid Zuma: That works for me. :)
[14:58] Simeon Bookmite: was a short story I cant track now
[14:58] Zobeid Zuma: We need more stories about AI and robots.
[14:58] Simeon Bookmite: that made me think
[14:59] Jago Constantine: because whatever methods we use to create a new species I don't think we'd be able to avoid doing it somewhat anthropocentrically
[14:59] Zobeid Zuma: Not HAL-like supercomputers, but commonplace independent AIs.
[15:00] Jago Constantine: ok now we're out of time - would anyone like a group invite?
[15:00] Eddi Haskell: i actually wanted to speak bout a book im reading lol
[15:00] Eddi Haskell: maybe next time
[15:00] Industria Dowler: I've got one. I'll try to make it next time.
[15:01] Industria Dowler: Thanks for hosting!
[15:01] Eddi Haskell: i need to get going now
[15:01] Jago Constantine: Thanks for coming
[15:01] Zobeid Zuma: see ya next week
[15:01] Eddi Haskell: see ya
[15:01] Simeon Bookmite: see you all next week
[15:01] Jago Constantine: see you next week 2pm saturday :)
[15:01] Industria Dowler: Jago, do you always post notices to Bookstacks?