13 February 2010

[13:54] Jago Constantine: Hey, Zobeid :)
[13:55] Zobeid Zuma: Hello
[13:56] Jago Constantine: Hi, Simeon :)
[13:56] Simeon Bookmite: hi there
[13:57] Jago Constantine: hey, metro, leiben
[13:57] Metro Annamemnon: hi!
[13:57] Leiben Lorakeet: Hello Jago, know if we have to turn voice on or anything?
[13:58] Jago Constantine: No, we chat in local for the meeting :)
[13:58] Leiben Lorakeet: great
[13:58] Jago Constantine: brb just getting a drink
[14:00] Egil Milner waits for things to rez.
[14:01] Zobeid Zuma: It can take A While.
[14:01] Jago Constantine: Ok back :) / Thanks for coming, folks! / For those of you who are new, the meeting usually runs as follows / we go round the circle and take turns to discuss what we've read in the genre recently / I usually start, but unfortunately I didn't get a chance to read anything this week :P / hehe / I did listen to some podcast stories
[14:03] Mesmer Jericho: hello everyone
[14:03] Leiben Lorakeet: Hello
[14:03] Jago Constantine: hey, mesmer, nika
[14:03] Mesmer Jericho: sorry to barge in ^^
[14:03] Nika Farshore: hello :)
[14:03] Jago Constantine: no worries / are you here for the science fiction meeting?
[14:04] Mesmer Jericho: well, yes ^^
[14:04] Jago Constantine: cool ... welcome :) / we just started
[14:04] Mesmer Jericho: not sure what form it'll take, though? ^^ i'll just hang back and see what you're all up to
[14:04] Jago Constantine: the format is that we go round the circle talking about what we read last
[14:04] Zobeid Zuma: unfortunately. . . I had water invading my work area, so I've spent most of my days running a shop vac instead of reading. :(
[14:05] Jago Constantine: I was just saying I didn't get to read anything but I have been listening to podcast sci fi
[14:05] Mesmer Jericho: alright, sounds neat
[14:05] Jago Constantine: (because next week's meeting we'll be listening to a story) / So I can't really talk about the story :) / So ... Simeon - have you read anything lately?
[14:06] Leiben Lorakeet: Ive been reading classic science fiction this past week
[14:06] Zobeid Zuma: This is a spoiler-free zone. :)
[14:06] Jago Constantine: lol yes zobeid
[14:06] Simeon Bookmite: I Have been listening to the podcast versions of Fledgeling and saltation
[14:06] Jago Constantine: hmm fledgeling?
[14:07] Simeon Bookmite: by Steve Miller and Sharon Lee
[14:07] Simeon Bookmite: I will be inerviewing them her tommorrow for our pudcast
[14:07] Jago Constantine: Oh, cool / what is it about?
[14:08] Simeon Bookmite: so I had to do some background work:$)
[14:08] Simeon Bookmite: saltation comes out next month.
[14:08] Simeon Bookmite: fledgling came out in september
[14:08] Simeon Bookmite: from Baen
[14:09] Jago Constantine: Hi, RihaNa, welcome :)
[14:09] Simeon Bookmite: mostly they are back story for the liaden Universe
[14:09] Metro Annamemnon: hi, paolo!
[14:10] Jago Constantine: Ok... I haven't read any liaden books
[14:10] Paolo Alfa: hello all
[14:10] Zobeid Zuma: There's a big faction of Liaden fans in SL. . . I'd never heard of those books until I came here.
[14:10] Mesmer Jericho: hey paolo
[14:10] Zobeid Zuma: And still haven't gotten around to reading any.
[14:10] Simeon Bookmite: they cover the early years of one of tjhe characters so that we can see how she fits into the overall picture.
[14:11] Jago Constantine: Can you give a bit of an overview of the Liaden universe?
[14:12] Simeon Bookmite: Its pure space opera.
[14:12] Simeon Bookmite: characterisation is good hardware is pretty generic,
[14:13] Simeon Bookmite: Liaden is one of the major human Cultures
[14:13] Simeon Bookmite: terra ia another
[14:14] Jago Constantine: are there aliens?
[14:14] Simeon Bookmite: yes but not in the books I read.
[14:14] Jago Constantine: heh ok
[14:15] Simeon Bookmite: they are I gather big slow moving and pretty unstopable.
[14:15] Metro Annamemnon: brb
[14:16] Jago Constantine: ok and what time is your interview tomorrow?
[14:16] Simeon Bookmite: 1 PM in the podcast studio
[14:17] Jago Constantine: cool :)
[14:17] Simeon Bookmite: I will put out a LM before hand
[14:17] Jago Constantine: Thanks, Simeon :) / Ok, Leiben ... have you read anything good lately? / You there? / Hi, Richard, welcome :)
[14:19] Leiben Lorakeet: oops sorry was afk, Just finished the foundation series.
[14:20] Jago Constantine: Ah, nice / all the books, or the original foundation series?
[14:20] Leiben Lorakeet: The original, Yeah so there are some newer ones i have not read yet, but it is neat to go back, and for its time it still holds up well
[14:21] Jago Constantine: We were just talking a few weeks ago about the reasons Asimov created a human-only setting
[14:22] Simeon Bookmite: was never tempted by the later ones
[14:22] Leiben Lorakeet: yes? I liked that about them.
[14:22] Zobeid Zuma: Why was it, I wonder?
[14:23] Jago Constantine: From memory, John W Campbell didn't like stories where aliens were more advanced than humans / or defeated them / Something like that
[14:23] Simeon Bookmite: yeah as i said hard to sell stories where welose
[14:23] Mesmer Jericho: i have to admit i liked it also. there's often sort of an automatic assumption that aliens are part of space.
[14:24] Jago Constantine: Yes / I'm something of a contact pessimist
[14:24] Zobeid Zuma: This is something I've thought about. . .
[14:24] Leiben Lorakeet: Wow, thats not why i liked that. Well star wars kinda stole the empire from the foundation series, but in starwars i always thought it was unrealistic that all those aliens would share a government
[14:25] Zobeid Zuma: I'd like to see a setting where there are only humans at first, but then we spread out and create new species. . . We become the "progenitors" if you will.
[14:25] Jago Constantine: None of the aliens in star wars are really *alien* though
[14:25] Zobeid Zuma: Is anyone aware of a setting like that, I wonder?
[14:25] Mesmer Jericho: and also, like you mentioned, that they are superior to humans. i wonder why that is? because we tend to view ourselves as being inherently inferior?
[14:25] Jago Constantine: zobeid - I think there are
[14:25] Simeon Bookmite: nods just guys in suits
[14:25] Jago Constantine: maybe cordwainer smith's books
[14:26] Zobeid Zuma: David Brin came close with this stories about uplifted species. . . But he posited a galaxy already full of them by the time humans appear.
[14:26] Jago Constantine: Well the idea of there being superior aliens is a consequence of the age of the cosmos
[14:26] Simeon Bookmite: nods strange author cordwainer
[14:26] Jago Constantine: aliens could have evolved aeons before us
[14:27] Egil Milner logs off to head home. "If I get there in time, I'll return."
[14:27] Mesmer Jericho: and then exploded aeons ago ^^ but i see your point.
[14:27] Paolo Alfa: They're almost certainly are aliens, but whether we'll have much to do with them is something else, or them with us.
[14:28] Zobeid Zuma: I think it's very questionable whether there are other civilizations already in our own galaxy. . . meaning, anywhere near enough for us to ever encounter them.
[14:28] Zobeid Zuma: But it's so uncertain, it's perfectly plausible to write stories either way.
[14:28] Jago Constantine: yes
[14:28] Simeon Bookmite: think civilisation is a human concept
[14:28] Jago Constantine: I sometimes wonder what would happen to sci fi if we ever meet aliens / I mean, as a genre / how can you write stories when you *know* what's out there
[14:29] Zobeid Zuma: I think Larry Niven did do a good job with his aliens in the Known Space and Ringworld series. . . They weren't just suits.
[14:29] Mesmer Jericho: well, it'd just be fiction? ^^
[14:29] Jago Constantine: yes LOL / thriller novels
[14:30] Zobeid Zuma: No matter how much is known, there always will be unknown too. :)
[14:30] Mesmer Jericho: the genre would spread out into different genres, like crime novels ("the martian on the balcony"), romance ("while you were hibernating") and so on...
[14:30] Leiben Lorakeet: If we did, im sure it would open a whole new genre of science fiction exploring our new neighbhors.
[14:30] Richard Ghostaltar: Isn't the key word "science"?
[14:31] Richard Ghostaltar: SF doesn't need aliens
[14:31] Jago Constantine: true / Ok ... Mesmer, what have you been reading lately?
[14:32] Simeon Bookmite: mm you can some up most of Niven's aliens in a few pages. which i dont think you should bevable to withany alien with depth
[14:32] Mesmer Jericho: well, actually... i haven't been reading sf in a while - that's part of why i thought i'd stop by here, see what's being read
[14:32] Jago Constantine: no worries :)
[14:32] Mesmer Jericho: so unless you want to hear my other books, i'll respectfully pass ^^
[14:32] Jago Constantine: Ok, Paolo - would you like to talk about something you've read lately?
[14:33] Paolo Alfa: I've just gotten about halfway thru Snow Crash
[14:33] Jago Constantine: nice :)
[14:34] Paolo Alfa: And I'm going to start One Hundred Years of Solitude today. Is that fantasy?
[14:34] Jago Constantine: Yes / So how are you finding Snow Crash?
[14:35] Brekka Sveiss: Thanks for the invite Jago
[14:36] Paolo Alfa: I like it, but don't quite understand it
[14:36] Jago Constantine: Which parts?
[14:37] Paolo Alfa: It's hard to tell what's real and what's virtual
[14:37] Paolo Alfa: which I think is the whole idea
[14:38] Jago Constantine: hmm ok ... from memory the virtual aspects are pretty clear / I haven't read it for a while though / one hundred years of solitude will be very different to follow it :)
[14:39] Paolo Alfa: yes, i started it once, heavy going really
[14:40] Paolo Alfa: but I hear it's the best of Magical realism, and arent' the Twilight books that?
[14:40] Jago Constantine: um no / hehe / I would describe them as paranormal romance
[14:41] Paolo Alfa: But they treat vampires as real, I mean as they would really act, not like scary monsters
[14:42] Jago Constantine: sure / but I think the genre of magical realism is more surreal
[14:42] Simeon Bookmite: Umm vampire are scary monsters
[14:42] Jago Constantine: the twilight milieu is fairly consistent
[14:42] Zobeid Zuma: I like for vampires to be scary monsters.
[14:42] Jago Constantine: even science fictional in that there is a rational explanation for vampirism
[14:42] Paolo Alfa: well, yes, but they wouldn't try to appear as such, that
[14:43] Metro Annamemnon: i read once that magical realism comes from thetransposition of the catholic church onto native belief systems.
[14:43] Jaen Wirefly: do you think most sci-fi is geered toward young adults?
[14:43] Mesmer Jericho: magic realism seems like when you infuse the "real world" with a kind of subtle mysticism? whereas twilight is just vampires all around, no questions asked - another reality, not a different perception of reality...
[14:43] Mesmer Jericho: (blah blah blah, that was long, sorry)
[14:43] Jago Constantine: Wikipedia: Magic realism, or magical realism, is an aesthetic style in which magical elements or illogical scenarios appear in an otherwise realistic or even "normal" setting.
[14:44] Simeon Bookmite: nods well said mesmer
[14:44] Metro Annamemnon: i think it's a way of thinking, of giving realism another layer of meaning.
[14:44] Simeon Bookmite: magic realism can and does merge with fantasy
[14:44] Jago Constantine: You'll see when you read 100 years of solitude / how magical it is
[14:45] Metro Annamemnon: like a natural disaster being the hand of god.
[14:45] Simeon Bookmite: but its less defined
[14:45] Metro Annamemnon: or alien visitation being another face of god :)
[14:46] Jago Constantine: Here's a good example - the woody allen movie Purple Rose of Cairo ... where the character comes out of the movie screen
[14:46] Jaen Wirefly: great movie btw
[14:46] Jago Constantine: no explanation or anything, it's a given
[14:47] Simeon Bookmite: inexplicable things happening and being accepted is magic realism for me, most fantasy
[14:47] Paolo Alfa: I've got to see that
[14:47] Simeon Bookmite: the inexplicable is explained
[14:47] Jago Constantine: yes its systemic simeon
[14:47] Metro Annamemnon: or, put another way maybe, the inexplicable is taken for granted.
[14:47] Jago Constantine: yes
[14:48] Jaen Wirefly: fantasy, sci-fi and horror almost always overlap
[14:48] Jago Constantine: sure there are blurred boundaries
[14:48] Metro Annamemnon: these days, surely.
[14:48] Metro Annamemnon: before i always though of fantasy as very Campbell-esque.
[14:48] Jago Constantine: hmm campbellesque?
[14:49] Metro Annamemnon: Joseph Campbell-esque.
[14:49] Jago Constantine: oh I get it / I was just talking about John W Campbell so I got confused
[14:49] Metro Annamemnon: The Hero's Quest.
[14:49] Simeon Bookmite: "some one comes to town some one leaves town" Big, Little lots of New weird.
[14:50] Jago Constantine: I thought 'someone comes to town' was a little contrived seeming / forced
[14:50] Simeon Bookmite: anythiong buy an author who gets hewr ideas from a dream diary :%0
[14:50] Metro Annamemnon: I haven't read that.
[14:50] Jago Constantine: its by cory doctorow
[14:50] Simeon Bookmite: still the world worst typist.
[14:50] Metro Annamemnon: Is Jeff Vandermeer doing an anthology on The New Weird? Or is that somebody else?
[14:51] Jago Constantine: the protagonist's father is a mountain and his mother is a washing machine / new weird is different again
[14:51] Jaen Wirefly: wow that is bizzare
[14:51] Jago Constantine: yeah but the symbolism seems a little heavy handed
[14:51] Simeon Bookmite: yeah and forced as jago said
[14:51] Metro Annamemnon: Sorry, i might be losing the thread here :)
[14:52] Jago Constantine: no worries metro
[14:53] Simeon Bookmite: just saying fantasy does not have to follow quest motifies, or ghost motifs for that matter
[14:54] Simeon Bookmite: urban fantast can take on magicrealim elements
[14:54] Metro Annamemnon: What do you think a 'new' definition of fantasy would be? It HAS gotten blurry.
[14:54] Paolo Alfa: what is the title of this book? with the protagonist washing machine and mountain?
[14:54] Zobeid Zuma: Fantasy isn't what it used to be.
[14:55] Jago Constantine: Someone comes to town, someone leaves town / by Cory Doctorow
[14:55] Metro Annamemnon: SciFi is different, too.
[14:55] Paolo Alfa: thank you
[14:55] Jago Constantine: Wikipedia again: Fantasy is a genre that uses magic and other supernatural forms as a primary element of plot, theme, and/or setting.
[14:55] Simeon Bookmite: nods but both have always changed
[14:55] Jago Constantine: that's very broad isn't it :P
[14:56] Metro Annamemnon: My old definition of scifi would have just encompassed hard scifi and that's no longer appropriate.
[14:57] Jago Constantine: Sure ... there's lots of great sci fi outside the hard stuff
[14:57] Simeon Bookmite: lord Dunsey had little in common with fritz leiber or george macdonald Fantasy has always attrated oddballs
[14:58] Jago Constantine: mervyn peake
[14:58] Zobeid Zuma: I read somewhere once that fantasy worked by presenting readers with the familiar, and SF by presenting the unfamiliar. But if that was ever true, it's totally broken down now.
[14:58] Leora Darkstone: how is sci fi different today?
[14:59] Simeon Bookmite: its broadened i think.
[14:59] Metro Annamemnon: I think it's a much broader category, only loosely based on science spec.
[14:59] Leora Darkstone: From just space opers?
[14:59] Simeon Bookmite: during the fifties it was defined by american magazines
[14:59] Leora Darkstone: sorry operas?
[14:59] Simeon Bookmite: nowadays there is awide range of influences
[15:00] Jago Constantine: Sorry, folks, it's 3.00pm I have to log now ...
[15:00] Metro Annamemnon: i fell in love with it in the early 60's. it was pretty hard scifi spec fiction.
[15:00] Leora Darkstone: I think the biggest changes I have seen is de emphasis on hard science
[15:00] Jago Constantine: thanks for a great discussion ... feel free to hang around and keep talking :)
[15:00] Mesmer Jericho: bye bye, jago
[15:00] Zobeid Zuma: Well, the whole computer revolution and cyberpunk genre totally changed the focus of SF.
[15:00] Leora Darkstone: bye jago
[15:00] Paolo Alfa: thanks for haviing it ,bye
[15:01] Jago Constantine: Next week we're listening to an audio story, so please do come along for that!
[15:01] Metro Annamemnon: thank you, Jago.
[15:01] Zobeid Zuma: I'll be here.
[15:01] Metro Annamemnon: What's the story?
[15:01] Jago Constantine: hehe I'll send a group notice out during the week when I pick it :)
[15:02] Metro Annamemnon: Enjoyed it. Bye!
[15:02] Simeon Bookmite: space opera is works where people run around with rayguns and fly spqace ships and nobody feels any need to explain the science, but are glad of an excuse to fight