19 December 2009

[14:00] Jago Constantine: Hey, Melch
[14:00] Melch Savon: Hey Jago, Eddi, Claire
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: hiya melch and claire
[14:00] Melch Savon: Don't mind me -- I'm in rezz
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: me too
[14:00] Jago Constantine: Claire / ?
[14:01] Eddi Haskell: dunno / i went along with it
[14:01] Melch Savon: She's on my HUD ... / Oh, 60m away. Sorry
[14:01] Garym Gartner: Hello.
[14:01] Jago Constantine: Hey Gary, welcome to Science Fiction Saturday :)
[14:01] Eddi Haskell: hi GG
[14:02] Jago Constantine: You're a filk fan, that's cool
[14:02] Garym Gartner: Jago, are you associated with Aussiecon?
[14:03] Jago Constantine: No, I'm not
[14:03] Melch Savon: Hello garym
[14:04] Garym Gartner: Ah, well. I was asked if I could recommend anyone to run filk for them ... no luck so far anyway.
[14:04] Jago Constantine: Ok, well maybe its just the four of us today / This is the last meeting for the year ... I'm away over Christmas / Anyway, Gary, being new, I'll explain the meeting format / Basically we usually go around the group, and each talk about what we've been reading since the last meeting / Although recently I've made every second meeting a podcast one, where we listen to a sci fi story as a group
[14:06] Garym Gartner: One moment ... need to get oven
[14:06] Jago Constantine: Sure / Hi, McDaniel!
[14:07] McDaniel Sixpence: hi Jago
[14:07] Jago Constantine: Cool avatar
[14:07] McDaniel Sixpence: ty
[14:07] Eddi Haskell: if you have lag reduce your particles to 0 in graphics
[14:07] Melch Savon: Sorry, I am in a crash cycle. If I crash again I won't bother coming back
[14:07] Jago Constantine: Sure its ok :)
[14:08] Eddi Haskell: melch cut your particles to 0
[14:08] Garym Gartner: I'm back
[14:08] Eddi Haskell: that is why you crash
[14:08] Melch Savon: Will give it a try
[14:08] Jago Constantine: Anyway since the last meeting I read an alternate history - 1632 by Eric Flint
[14:08] Garym Gartner: I've read that.
[14:09] Jago Constantine: It's an alternate history crossed with time travel I suppose
[14:09] Melch Savon: Ring of Fire, right?
[14:09] Jago Constantine: yes, that's it / an average american town is transplanted into the middle of the thirty years' war
[14:10] Eddi Haskell: they prolly bitch about the lack of deoderants
[14:10] Jago Constantine: it reminded me a lot of A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
[14:10] Garym Gartner: But they had more long-term success than the Yankee.
[14:10] Jago Constantine: Yes, well the author is probably less cynical than Mark Twain :) / I liked it, although it probably isn't the most plausible outcome for such a temporal displacement / they do manage to survive and thrive through the novel
[14:11] Garym Gartner: It does deal with the problems realistically, at least.
[14:12] Jago Constantine: yes, but it was lucky they were a town with their own power plant and coal mine :P
[14:13] Jago Constantine: Hi, Gaspar :)
[14:13] gaspar Violet: hello
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: i made candles im giving to everyone
[14:13] gaspar Violet: sorry
[14:13] Garym Gartner: Thanks, Eddi
[14:13] gaspar Violet: i'm french, and new
[14:13] Garym Gartner: I'm new here too, gaspar
[14:13] McDaniel Sixpence: ty eddie
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: well welcome ya'all
[14:14] Jago Constantine: Welcome to second life, gaspar
[14:14] gaspar Violet: thank you
[14:14] Jago Constantine: this is a science fiction discussion group, feel free to take a seat :)
[14:14] Garym Gartner: There's an authorized fanfic zine for the 1632 world. A friend of mine writes for it.
[14:14] Jago Constantine: oh that's cool
[14:15] Garym Gartner: The Grantville Gazette, I think it's called.
[14:15] gaspar Violet: you talk with voice ?
[14:15] Jago Constantine: no, we do the meeting in local chat
[14:15] gaspar Violet: ok
[14:16] Jago Constantine: I thought it was alright as an alternate history, but I'm not going to rush to read the sequel
[14:16] Jago Constantine: Hi, Rhiannon :)
[14:16] Rhiannon Dragoone: hi, jago! / Sorry i'm late
[14:16] Jago Constantine: For anyone new who's waiting for Rhiannon's clothes to rez, she's a nudist lol
[14:16] Garym Gartner: Nice outfit. :)
[14:16] Rhiannon Dragoone smiles at Jago
[14:16] Melch Savon: Eric Flint is a McDonalds writer -- filling, but not gourmet. He always satisfies but I don't know if he's ever blown me away
[14:16] Rhiannon Dragoone: Garym, thank you!
[14:17] Melch Savon: Proflific as all get out though
[14:17] Jago Constantine: This was the first Eric Flint novel I've read
[14:17] Rhiannon Dragoone: Jago, which one was it?
[14:17] Jago Constantine: 1632, about an american town transported to the 30 years' war
[14:18] Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, wow, i've been meaning to read that.
[14:18] Jago Constantine: it's available for free online at the Baen Free Library
[14:18] Rhiannon Dragoone: i'll jot that down. ty
[14:19] Jago Constantine: http://www.baen.com/library/
[14:19] Jago Constantine: Ok - Eddi, did you read any sci fi since the last meeting?
[14:19] Eddi Haskell: i read a book called the year million / or most of it / that you turned me on to
[14:20] Jago Constantine: How did you like it?
[14:20] Eddi Haskell: it is an academic treatice
[14:20] Eddi Haskell: i liked it but some of the equations were hard for me
[14:20] Garym Gartner: Who's it by?
[14:20] Eddi Haskell: all these authors
[14:20] Eddi Haskell: like each one has a section
[14:20] Jago Constantine: Edited by Damien Broderick
[14:20] Eddi Haskell: i was particulary interested in one thing / since the universe is now expanding / rather, then as einstein thought / contraacting after a big bang
[14:21] Garym Gartner: Are you sure that's what Einstein thought?
[14:21] Eddi Haskell: what does that mean for potentional time travel? / mmmmmmm / no / i think he thought that but im not sure / but
[14:22] Rhiannon Dragoone: Eddi, a time traveller would experience the universe's expansion in reverse
[14:22] Eddi Haskell: mmmmmmmm / yeah thats right / so
[14:22] Rhiannon Dragoone: The big crunch
[14:22] Eddi Haskell: very good / so if time is essentially a matter of a point of view / depending on which spectrum you take as your past and wich as your forward / the universe to you would be contracting / now one thing about this book / well lots of things were interesting / the relevance of finding the matermatical formula to predict primes
[14:23] Jago Constantine: actually, einstein did introduce his "cosmological constant" to achieve a static universe ... in order to prevent it from contracting
[14:23] Eddi Haskell: what is that jago
[14:24] Garym Gartner: Fancy language for "fudge factor" :)
[14:24] Jago Constantine: oh its a famous fudge factor
[14:24] Jago Constantine: exactly
[14:24] Jago Constantine: he made up this thing to get the result he wanted
[14:24] Eddi Haskell: so how does it fudge / mmmm
[14:24] Jago Constantine: and called it the cosmological constant, or that's what its known as
[14:25] Garym Gartner: It has to do with how strongly the universe holds itself together, I think.
[14:25] Eddi Haskell: mmmm
[14:25] Rhiannon Dragoone: Jago, but that was a hypothetical
[14:25] Jago Constantine: because he was perhaps philosophically opposed to the idea of a contracting universe
[14:25] Jago Constantine: or maybe a dynamic universe - one that expands or contracts
[14:25] Eddi Haskell: mmmm why does the universe have to expand to infinity just because it is expanding now?
[14:25] Garym Gartner: More that the universe was observed to be expanding, but shouldn't have been by his theory.
[14:26] Eddi Haskell: yes
[14:26] Rhiannon Dragoone: Garym, that's right and with gravity a tenth of what is necessry to hold the universe together...
[14:26] Jago Constantine: yes, observation proved him wrong and he greatly regretted it
[14:26] Eddi Haskell: does that mean gravity can or cannot hold it together
[14:26] Rhiannon Dragoone: Eddi, it means we have a descrepency we have to explain
[14:26] Eddi Haskell: or the strong force which we assume / but
[14:26] Garym Gartner: Eddi: That's the key question, whether the universe wi ll expand forever or start contracting
[14:26] Rhiannon Dragoone: String theory does it by saying gravity's force leaches in other dimensions.
[14:26] Rhiannon Dragoone: Then there is dark matter
[14:27] Eddi Haskell: mmmm / i thight string theory was all about proving the relationship between difference obeservable forces / and unobservable but theoretic ones
[14:27] Rhiannon Dragoone: Eddi, its all about unification--of relativity and quantum mechanics
[14:28] Eddi Haskell: yes
[14:28] Rhiannon Dragoone: its the Unified Field Theory than Einstein dreamed of
[14:28] Eddi Haskell: yes
[14:28] Jago Constantine: I thought it was pretty clear that the universe will expand forever
[14:28] Rhiannon Dragoone: Jago, not if gravity is ten times greater
[14:28] Garym Gartner: I think that's the consensus view right now.
[14:28] Rhiannon Dragoone: or there is ten times the matter
[14:28] Eddi Haskell: mmmm but how can you prove that with an equation
[14:28] Rhiannon Dragoone: then it could contract, like a yo-yo
[14:29] Garym Gartner: In fact, wasn't it recently shown that the expansion of the universe is accelerating?
[14:29] Eddi Haskell: yes in the past 10 years / it is shown
[14:29] Rhiannon Dragoone: Garym, no ur thinking of my carberator.
[14:29] Eddi Haskell: that is what this chapter is about
[14:29] Jago Constantine: The Universe will expand for ever, at an ever-increasing rate, Nasa scientists have announced.
They base their conclusion on new data obtained by the Microwave Anisotropy Probe (Map) satellite, which has been orbiting the Sun beyond the Moon since shortly after its launch in 2001.
[14:29] Jago Constantine: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2748653.stm
[14:29] Rhiannon Dragoone: Jago, i've read that
[14:29] Eddi Haskell: mmmm today they think that
[14:29] Rhiannon Dragoone: it depends on whether string theory is true or dark matter
[14:30] Garym Gartner: Which leaves the question, what's pushing it apart?
[14:30] Rhiannon Dragoone: so all that can change
[14:30] Jago Constantine: the cosmological constant ;)
[14:30] Garym Gartner: Bingo.
[14:30] Rhiannon Dragoone: jago LOL
[14:31] Eddi Haskell: and i have also been reading about the fall of the whitlam government in australia in 1975 which is more unbelivable then time travel
[14:31] Eddi Haskell: but it happened
[14:31] Jago Constantine: lol Eddi
[14:31] Eddi Haskell: lol
[14:31] Rhiannon Dragoone: Eddi, no clue wht ur talking about / i'm just a dumb blond from no. america
[14:31] Jago Constantine: I'm Australian ... / The elected govermnent in 1975 was dismissed by the Governor General, the Queen's representative
[14:32] Rhiannon Dragoone: Sorry, really to be so ignorant, Jago, and Eddi
[14:32] Jago Constantine: It was Australia's major constitutional crisis
[14:32] Rhiannon Dragoone: Oh, is that the one where the Governor General overruled the people's vote?
[14:32] Eddi Haskell: yeah
[14:32] Jago Constantine: Yes, kind of
[14:32] Rhiannon Dragoone: okay, don't feel so stupid now
[14:33] Jago Constantine: There was a huge outcry, and then the population went ahead and voted for the guy the GG appointed anyway lol
[14:33] Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, i heard that.
[14:33] Eddi Haskell: oh and yesterday desmond shang gave me a tour of caledon in blue mars
[14:33] Rhiannon Dragoone: i think a GG is a good idea but shouldn't it be elected? / i mean, there is the history of the monarchy, etc. / For sure
[14:33] Eddi Haskell: noah cause it will hav pwer then / its a ceremonial post
[14:33] Melch Savon: Oh, how was Blue Mars? No mac or linux client, and I haven't booted up windows to see it yet
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: well
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: you can use mac, bootcamp
[14:34] Jago Constantine: Hi, Ugene, Fuschia, welcome to science fiction saturday
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: im gonna have a gallery there, ive done four movies / its amazing
[14:34] Ugene Ogrimund: what's going on here?
[14:34] Fuschia Nightfire: hi jago
[14:34] Jago Constantine: we're just discussing blue mars
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: you just walk around and look at cool builsings
[14:34] Jago Constantine: not the novel - the virtual world
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: i have posters i made ill rez if you want them
[14:34] Garym Gartner: Ah, thanks, I was confused on that.
[14:35] Melch Savon: Naw, I'll check it out myself when I have time. Just wanted you to say ts worth my time is all.
[14:35] Jago Constantine: I plan to check it out next year / Anyway, Melch - have you read any novels lately? / or any sci fi
[14:36] Eddi Haskell: let me know if you want them i made three posters
[14:36] Melch Savon: Since I last came I think I have rediscovered all of the Vorkosigan books by Bujold
[14:37] Jago Constantine: Hmm ... I never got into those
[14:37] Melch Savon: Nice read. Everyone likes the underdog
[14:37] Jago Constantine: or anything by bujold actually
[14:37] Garym Gartner: I've read some of hers. Pleasant, but didn't make me wildly enthusiastic the way it does for many people.
[14:37] Melch Savon: They were up my ally. No need to strain my brain (I have work for that) but interesting enough to be engaging
[14:38] Jago Constantine: ok, so how many books are there?
[14:38] Rhiannon Dragoone: Melch tell us a little about these books. I'm always interested in a new series
[14:38] Melch Savon: 6? 7?
[14:38] Garym Gartner: More than that.
[14:38] Jago Constantine: wow lol
[14:38] Melch Savon: It all revolves around Miles Vorkosigan. Its a space adventure, and hes from a slightly backwards planet where all mutations are killed at birth.
[14:39] Melch Savon: Well, there carriers are
[14:39] Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, ho, i love a good space opera
[14:39] Melch Savon: He looks like a dwarf mutant due to some post-birth trauma, so everyone on his planet finds him disgusting. Most do at least
[14:39] Jago Constantine: so they're basically spartans?
[14:39] Melch Savon: Yet because his father is regent he works his way into intelligence, and becomes admirals of a mercenary fleet / They would be if Bujold went to the extreme, yes / It's all about Miles struggle to be accepted at home while leading a secret life where he is a crippled James Bond in space / Not a horribly boring concept really. The secondary characters tend to be well done as well
[14:41] Ugene Ogrimund: ahhhhhhhhhhh. how the fuck do i get out of here????
[14:41] Avatar ejected.
[14:41] Jago Constantine: I eject you that's how :P
[14:41] Garym Gartner: Whatever works. :)
[14:41] Jago Constantine: nudity is ok ... erections aren't
[14:41] Rhiannon Dragoone: Melch, it sunds like a good read
[14:42] Melch Savon: It is. Not too deep, but enough to keep your interest
[14:42] Rhiannon Dragoone: no, erections are sexual behavior. / Did you eject him?
[14:42] Melch Savon: The Kindle has been very expensive for me. Every book I finished, I had the next in 3 minutes. Read the series straight through
[14:42] Rhiannon Dragoone: I hope
[14:42] Jago Constantine: haha
[14:42] Rhiannon Dragoone: Didn't see him, thank god!
[14:42] Jago Constantine: its like me with itunes / with tv episodes
[14:43] Melch Savon: Jago ... I have that problem too, though not as bad there
[14:43] Jago Constantine: I have just been watching Glee and loving it :)
[14:43] Jago Constantine: Anyway thanks Melch - Rhiannon, have you read any sci fi?
[14:45] Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, no Jago. i'm still thinking though of the Ipod broadcast. / The idea of looking at plant intelligence or clone intelligence
[14:45] Jago Constantine: ok ... last week we listened to a podcast about an intelligent plant and a clone :)
[14:45] Rhiannon Dragoone: And i'm still reminded of Oscar, the intelligent plant, from, i think the STanly Weinbaum story--from the golden age
[14:46] Jago Constantine: Little Shop of Horrors
[14:46] Jago Constantine: :P
[14:46] Jago Constantine: Oh that was Audrey
[14:46] Garym Gartner: Was that the Martian Odyssey or something like that?
[14:46] Rhiannon Dragoone: not that was Bradburry / But Audrey is typical, the story i'm thinking of was unique / in that the plant really was a plant. / Took in oxygen, spewed out carbon dioxide, absorbed minearls, the whole bit / So how would such a creature think? / that's what the story was all about
[14:49] Jago Constantine: The Lotus Eaters / was that the story? / I just googled it / the plant creatures have no survival instinct
[14:50] Rhiannon Dragoone: Yes, I think it was
[14:50] Rhiannon Dragoone: that's right, they just exist.
[14:50] Jago Constantine: hmm I'll check it out if I get a chance
[14:50] Rhiannon Dragoone: and our hero, a human, had a hard time comprehending there thinking
[14:50] Rhiannon Dragoone: *their
[14:50] Jago Constantine: I bet / Ok ... Gary - would you like to talk about some sci fi you've read lately?
[14:50] Rhiannon Dragoone: i think i will re-read it. Thanks for finding the cite, Jago
[14:51] Garym Gartner: Well, just today I got a surprise in the mail from a friend...
[14:51] Garym Gartner: Five stories by classic SF authors, translated into German. But I haven't started on that yet.
[14:51] Garym Gartner: Last month I re-read Niven and Pournelle's "Inferno."
[14:51] Rhiannon Dragoone: kewl
[14:52] Garym Gartner: It's a science-fictional version of Dante's Inferno, with Mussolini instead of Virgil as the guide.
[14:52] Jago Constantine: oh cool
[14:52] Rhiannon Dragoone: all right. Now, that's an awesome concept
[14:52] Jago Constantine: hmm is there supposed to be some correspondence between virgil and mussolini?
[14:52] Rhiannon Dragoone: they're both Italians
[14:53] Garym Gartner: Only that they're both Italian, as far as I can see.
[14:53] Garym Gartner: But Mussolini was expiating the bad things he'd done in life by guiding people through Hell.
[14:53] Rhiannon Dragoone: Maybe Mussolini was a frustrated poet.
[14:53] Garym Gartner: The main character is a science fiction author who died stupidly at a con.
[14:53] Jago Constantine: hmm ok ... in the original virgil is a virtuous pagan
[14:54] Rhiannon Dragoone: is there any other way to die at a con but stupidly?
[14:54] Garym Gartner: Unfortuantely, yes.
[14:54] Rhiannon Dragoone: i know. just kidding
[14:55] Garym Gartner: I chaired a con this year where one of the guests died before it.
[14:55] Rhiannon Dragoone: how horrible for you.
[14:55] Rhiannon Dragoone: I retract my joke, then.
[14:55] Garym Gartner: No offense taken.
[14:55] Rhiannon Dragoone smiles
[14:56] Eddi Haskell: its over my head but most stuff like this is.
[14:56] Garym Gartner: ANyway , it's got some nice parallels with Dante. The setup of Hell is mostly the same.
[14:56] Jago Constantine: Cool
[14:56] Jago Constantine: I was reading about another sci fi treatment of hell by ... hmm what's his name
[14:57] Eddi Haskell: dick cheney
[14:57] Garym Gartner: The "Heroes in Hell" series, perhaps?
[14:57] Rhiannon Dragoone: another good book to add to my reading list
[14:57] Jago Constantine: Hal Duncan
[14:57] Rhiannon Dragoone: ROTF
[14:57] Jago Constantine: It's called Escape from Hell
[14:58] Rhiannon Dragoone: thanks, Eddi
[14:58] Jago Constantine: It sounded interesting
[14:58] Eddi Haskell: your welcome!
[14:58] Jago Constantine: It's like escape from new york
[14:58] Jago Constantine: I gather that Hell is like new york in the novel ... except with a statue of Justice instead of Liberty :P
[14:59] Rhiannon Dragoone: Jago, i can't tell the dif between NY and Hell either
[14:59] Jago Constantine: "A hitman, a hooker, a homosexual and a hobo make the ultimate prison break"
[15:01] Jago Constantine: Anyway, it sounded like a fun concept, but perhaps a little forced
[15:01] Jago Constantine: Ok, thanks for coming folks
[15:01] Jago Constantine: I'll send out a group notice for the next meeting, which will be in January
[15:01] Garym Gartner: Thanks for hosting!
[15:01] Rhiannon Dragoone: Great, Jago
[15:01] Rhiannon Dragoone: U did a good job of hosting, as usual
[15:01] Eddi Haskell: merry xmas everyone
[15:02] Garym Gartner: This was good, I'll want to come back again.
[15:02] Rhiannon Dragoone: Merry Christmas everyone!
[15:02] Jago Constantine: Thanks for joining the group, gary - bring friends :)
[15:02] Melch Savon: Bye all -- see you next year
[15:02] Jago Constantine: And best wishes for Christmas and the New Year to you all :)
[15:02] Eddi Haskell: cu mitch !