30 January 2010

[13:33] Kghia Gherardi: Hi there, Jago
[13:35] Kghia Gherardi: Hi Brett
[13:35] Brett Rascon: hi
[13:36] Kghia Gherardi: HI yyvony
[13:36] yyvonny Wylder: Hello :))
[13:36] yyvonny's Free Translator: Hello:))
[13:36] Kghia Gherardi: There is a science fiction discussion in about 25 minutes
[13:37] yyvonny Wylder: yes
[13:37] yyvonny's Free Translator: yes
[13:37] Kghia Gherardi: it will be in the other room, lead by Jago. But you are welcome to explore Bookstacks. :)
[13:38] Calliope Sweetwater: brb
[13:38] Kghia Gherardi: ok
[13:43] yyvonny Wylder: maybe if you have the time you can tell me how
[13:43] yyvonny Wylder: im not english you know
[13:43] yyvonny Wylder: i have no hud
[13:44] yyvonny Wylder: ok but nothing happent
[13:47] yyvonny Wylder: its your turn dear
[13:47] yyvonny Wylder: yes
[13:47] Brett Rascon: ok
[13:47] Brett Rascon: I'll try and start
[13:47] yyvonny Wylder: but you must make a \word of it i think
[13:48] Brett Rascon: ok, that's my word
[13:48] Brett Rascon: your turn
[13:49] Brett Rascon: you must click on a square
[13:49] Brett Rascon: then click a letter
[13:49] yyvonny Wylder: ram
[13:50] yyvonny Wylder: i say ram
[13:50] yyvonny Wylder: in local
[13:51] yyvonny Wylder: dont you answer me
[13:51] yyvonny Wylder: what is a quar
[13:51] Brett Rascon: the board is made up of lots of squares
[13:51] Brett Rascon: yes ?
[13:53] yyvonny Wylder: what is a quarewe
[13:54] Jago Constantine: Hi, Zobeid :)
[13:54] yyvonny Wylder: like a fra,\me
[13:54] Zobeid Zuma: Hii
[13:55] yyvonny Wylder: you give me a headache i must allways everythig at least 3 times ask before you give a clear answer
[13:55] Jago Constantine: Hi, Gilles :)
[13:55] yyvonny Wylder: its your turn
[13:56] Gilles Kuhn: hello
[13:56] Jago Constantine: Cool avatar!
[13:56] Gilles Kuhn: thanks :-)
[13:56] Jago Constantine: Are you here for the sci fi meeting?
[13:56] Gilles Kuhn: indeed
[13:57] Jago Constantine: Ok we'll start in a few minutes when some more people show up :)
[13:57] Jago Constantine: Take a seat when you rez
[13:57] Zobeid Zuma: I wish I could get my good computer back from the shop, it takes so long for stuff to rez on this one.
[13:57] yyvonny Wylder: the word dont show up
[13:57] Jago Constantine: well this sim is slow rezzing anyway usually
[13:58] yyvonny Wylder: tram
[13:58] yyvonny Wylder: they are goin from my bord
[13:58] Jago Constantine: hey eddi :)
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: hi jago
[14:00] Jago Constantine: We're up to 76 group members in the sci fi group :)
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: is eveyrone laggy or is it me?
[14:01] Gilles Kuhn: i'm afraid its you
[14:01] Jago Constantine: I find if you sit you don't get lag walking around :)
[14:01] Zobeid Zuma: I haven't been reading, haven't been coming here. . . But I thought, maybe if I come and listen, it'll help motivate me to pick up a book.
[14:01] Jago Constantine: Sure :)
[14:01] Jago Constantine: Anyway if you're new, the format of the meeting is that we take turns discussing what we read last
[14:02] Jago Constantine: I'll start - this week I had the chance to read 7th Son: Descent by J. C. Hutchins
[14:02] yyvonny Wylder: thanks
[14:03] Jago Constantine: This novel apparently began as a podcast and was published
[14:03] Jago Constantine: so I suppose its an example of an author building up popularity online
[14:03] Jago Constantine: one moment
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: im trying to mute that object
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: the game board
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: i think it worked
[14:05] Eddi Haskell: you can mute objects
[14:05] Jago Constantine: oh I was just going to ask them to stop until later
[14:06] Eddi Haskell: well im not sure it works but i have not had a green notice in a few mintues
[14:07] Jago Constantine: Ok anyway
[14:07] Jago Constantine: hi, Djudson
[14:07] Calliope Sweetwater: Apologies. I can't stay. Rl calls
[14:07] yyvonny Wylder: i bin stopt
[14:07] Jago Constantine: Anyway 7th son is more of a technothriller than sci fi, I suppose
[14:08] Jago Constantine: It begins with the president being assassinated by a 4-year old
[14:08] yyvonny Wylder: i diddnt know that we not may play the game
[14:08] yyvonny Wylder: we must buy one from us one
[14:08] Jago Constantine: and revolves around a group of men who turn out to be clones
[14:09] Jago Constantine: They'd all be leading their own very different loves
[14:09] Jago Constantine: Hi, Jacobe - I'm sitting here :)
[14:09] Jago Constantine: different lives
[14:10] yyvonny Wylder: yes only what is the price
[14:10] Jago Constantine: I didn't really get into the book, but I was curious about the description of how the clones were made
[14:10] Jago Constantine: and the ramifications
[14:10] yyvonny Wylder: i like scrabble much more
[14:10] Jago Constantine: A secret government project raised a boy to about his early teens I think
[14:11] Jago Constantine: then copied his memories into the 7 clones
[14:11] yyvonny Wylder: then you have both your ow letters
[14:11] Jago Constantine: and raised them (boys from brazil style) with a series of very similar foster parents and lifestyles
[14:11] yyvonny Wylder: you can find it yourself to
[14:12] yyvonny Wylder: ok
[14:12] Jago Constantine: I enjoyed those aspects better than the hunt for the assassin plot
[14:12] Jago Constantine: the way they related to the people who they thought were their dead parents
[14:13] Jago Constantine: who they remembered to be their parents
[14:13] Jago Constantine: anyway, I don't really recommend it unless you're into clones :P
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: thats what i tell people about redgrave skins
[14:14] Jago Constantine: Again, 7th Son by J. C. Hutchins
[14:14] Jago Constantine: Ok, um DJudson - have you read anything recently you'd like to talk about?
[14:15] DJudson Baran: yes i just finished tad williams Otherland 4 books about a million words
[14:15] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:15] Jago Constantine: I liked them but I think I only read 2 of the series before burning out
[14:16] DJudson Baran: it takes patents. but the computer aspects are amazing
[14:16] DJudson Baran: it talke SL about five steps ahead
[14:16] Jago Constantine: pardon?
[14:17] Zobeid Zuma: It's about a virtual world?
[14:17] Jago Constantine: yes
[14:17] Jago Constantine: a series of them from memory
[14:17] DJudson Baran: it also takes the "perales of pauline" out in every chapter
[14:18] Jago Constantine: My favourite world from the book, only seen briefly
[14:18] Jago Constantine: Is one in which two people having been um roleplaying as rulers in the land of oz
[14:18] Jago Constantine: maybe the scarecrow and the tin man waging war?
[14:19] Jago Constantine: the emerald city is a green-painted concrete gulag
[14:19] Zobeid Zuma: heh. . . And that brings to mind A Barnstormer In Oz. :)
[14:19] DJudson Baran: yes, plus alice in wonderland
[14:20] Jago Constantine: one line stuck with me, the scarecrow giving an oz version of the line from bladerunner
[14:20] Jago Constantine: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
[14:20] Jago Constantine: I forget the oz references lol
[14:21] Jago Constantine: Also now that I think of it there was a seen from a giant kitchen, like the greenies sim here in Second LIfe
[14:21] Jago Constantine: *scene :P
[14:21] Zobeid Zuma: oh, it's been a long time since I was there :)
[14:21] Jago Constantine: anyway, what did you think DJudson?
[14:22] DJudson Baran: At one time I had over a thousand paper back sf books
[14:22] Jago Constantine: wow
[14:22] DJudson Baran: but there is no market for them
[14:23] Zobeid Zuma: I know what you mean
[14:23] DJudson Baran: I do have most of EC Tubb "dumarest of terra" series
[14:24] Jago Constantine: I never read those
[14:24] DJudson Baran: If any of you would like them contact me and I can send them free + postage
[14:24] DJudson Baran: they are from the 1970's
[14:25] Zobeid Zuma: good era for SF. . . before all the cyberpunk stuff took over
[14:26] Jago Constantine: have you considered bookmooch or bookcrossing?
[14:26] Jago Constantine: if you were looking to give away books to good homes
[14:26] Jago Constantine: hehe
[14:26] Jago Constantine: Hello, Simeon :)
[14:27] Simeon Bookmite: hi
[14:27] Jago Constantine: Nice skirt!
[14:27] Jago Constantine: ;)
[14:27] Simeon Bookmite: if you have knees you should flaunt them
[14:27] Jago Constantine: Ok, Gilles - have you read any good SF lately?
[14:28] Gilles Kuhn: not really lately
[14:28] Gilles Kuhn: last good sf i read was david brin
[14:28] Jago Constantine: how about the last thing you read?
[14:29] Jago Constantine: oh which one?
[14:29] Gilles Kuhn: but in fact it was a reraed of the first one of the uplift serie
[14:29] Gilles Kuhn: sundivers
[14:29] Jago Constantine: oh someone else was reading that series
[14:29] Jago Constantine: hmm not here today
[14:29] Gilles Kuhn: very good one i must say
[14:30] Jago Constantine: I'm a big fan of that series
[14:30] DJudson Baran: have to go. see you next week
[14:30] Eddi Haskell: bye judson
[14:30] Gilles Kuhn: the general frame is the idea that their is contact with a very old and developped galactic multi racial civilization
[14:31] Gilles Kuhn: and that all the race were artificially uplifted to sapiency by others older race
[14:32] Gilles Kuhn: with the idea that human were not uplifted but evolveed alone to sapiency which make of thema totally exceptionnal case (anthropocentris as always...)
[14:32] Gilles Kuhn: anthropocentrism*
[14:32] Industria Dowler: Sounds interesting.
[14:32] Jago Constantine: I was just reading a review of the uplift series which complained a little about that
[14:33] Zobeid Zuma: I did read one of them myself, the one with all the dolphins.
[14:33] Jago Constantine: how the humans were shown as so special :
[14:33] Zobeid Zuma: It's very much a space opera style. :)
[14:33] Gilles Kuhn: well someone pleas me fid me asf book that dont give soem special status to humans.....
[14:33] Industria Dowler: Seriously. :)
[14:34] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:34] Gilles Kuhn: rahhh the chat interface in sl is the baddest in te world
[14:34] Jago Constantine: can it be a book entirely without humans? xD
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: well
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: i think you can transliterate koko the chimp
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: make it into a book
[14:34] Gilles Kuhn: how they ca&nnot understand that bloody text treatment must be local and not in their bloody lahggy servers
[14:35] Eddi Haskell: she has a vocabulary of 150 words
[14:35] Simeon Bookmite: thomas Disch springs to mind
[14:35] Simeon Bookmite: that book where aliens plant earth with food crops
[14:35] Jago Constantine: The Genocides :)
[14:35] Jago Constantine: yes
[14:36] Jago Constantine: great book
[14:36] Jago Constantine: the last line is awesome
[14:36] Simeon Bookmite: The Genocides
[14:36] Jago Constantine: Anything by HP Lovecraft also :)
[14:37] Eddi Haskell: why dont you recommend a story for some of us to read andduscuss by him
[14:38] Jago Constantine: Its funny because science fiction is a genre that you'd think would express the post-copernican dethroning of the human race from a significant place in the universe
[14:38] Simeon Bookmite: actually our book current sunday discusion group is doing a book of sherlock holmes?lovecroft crosovers
[14:38] Gilles Kuhn: ia Cthuly Phtagn ;-)
[14:38] Jago Constantine: but that probably wouldn't sell very well
[14:38] Jago Constantine: I'll think about that eddi
[14:39] Zobeid Zuma: It remains to be seen how signficant our place is. . . I'd say not much, thus far. But I like to imagine we have potential. :)
[14:39] Simeon Bookmite: becomeing alien is I think a good Humans are nothing special book
[14:40] Simeon Bookmite: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Becoming-Alien-Ben-Bova-Presents/dp/0812503139
[14:40] Gilles Kuhn: potential for what or for whom?
[14:41] Jago Constantine: Also with regard to human chauvinism, I'm reminded of John Campbell who only liked stories where humans beat the aliens
[14:41] Zobeid Zuma: Potential to create a civilization that spreads over a large area and lasts a long time, if nothing else.
[14:41] Jago Constantine: Which famously lead to Isaac Asimov writing the Foundation series set in a human only galaxy
[14:42] Simeon Bookmite: he had a point folks like their side to win
[14:42] Jago Constantine: well I think campbell didn't like anything with superior aliens which is more the point
[14:43] Jago Constantine: but it seems implausible given the age of the galaxy that there aren't more advanced civilisations
[14:43] Industria Dowler: People might find it hard to relate to the characters if they aren't like them. Which is boring to me. :)
[14:43] Industria Dowler: Where's the fun in that?
[14:43] Zobeid Zuma: No it doesn't. We don't have enough information to even estimate the odds of that.
[14:44] Industria Dowler: I wouldn't mind trying my hand at attempting to relate to a giant, ugly space monster that eats people.
[14:44] Jago Constantine: well I think we can look at the amount of time it took humans to evolve
[14:44] Simeon Bookmite: i think it had more to do with getting people to read another issue but you might be right
[14:44] Jago Constantine: and given our star isn't that old
[14:45] Gilles Kuhn: well about that our civilisation is only 10000 year old and we have communication since only 100 years so we are probably nowhere and cannot even imagine what a advanced civ is like
[14:45] Jago Constantine: older stars could have spawned races much earier
[14:45] Zobeid Zuma: Really old stars didn't have planets, they were too metal-poor.
[14:45] Jago Constantine: well they wouldn't have to be that much older even
[14:45] Jago Constantine: a civilisation 100,000 years ahead of our own
[14:45] Jago Constantine: which is trivial
[14:46] Zobeid Zuma: And it may be a fantastical fluke of luck that allowed us to evolve. No telling how many statistical hurdles we've already cleared. . .
[14:46] Gilles Kuhn: which i ridiculous even therer are probably intelligent life forms millions of years older
[14:46] Zobeid Zuma: So maybe intelligence is vanishingly rare.
[14:46] Jago Constantine: personally I incline towards rare intelligence
[14:46] Simeon Bookmite: inteligence has not been around long enought to prove its worth as a survival trait.
[14:46] Gilles Kuhn: well zobeid thats a very anthropocentric argument
[14:47] Jago Constantine: I think in the short term if we're going to meet other intelligent beings, they'll be ones we create or uplift
[14:47] Zobeid Zuma: Yes. . . Any argument about the likelihood of intelligence has to be anthropocentric.
[14:47] Gilles Kuhn: if and our science assume that nature work everywhere the same there must be a lot of life and intelligent life too up there
[14:47] Zobeid Zuma: Because even if it's vanishingly rare, only the races that make it past all those statistical hurdles are capable of pondering the likelihood. :)
[14:48] Simeon Bookmite: suspect we see intelgence as a social construct that the aliens will embrace
[14:48] Gilles Kuhn: i disagree life is prbably the rule not the exception autoorganisation of matter is staggering
[14:48] Simeon Bookmite: ie they will want to comunicate socialise bargain
[14:49] Zobeid Zuma: I personally suspect that *life* is pretty common, but intelligent life is quite rare.
[14:49] Gilles Kuhn: why so zobeid?
[14:49] Zobeid Zuma: Life appeared early in Earth's history, practically as soon as the planet was capable of supporting it.
[14:49] Simeon Bookmite: but they may be no more intersted in things outside their speices than we are in trees
[14:49] Gilles Kuhn: i love tres !
[14:49] Zobeid Zuma: I'm quite confident we'll find life on Mars too.
[14:50] Gilles Kuhn: trees*
[14:50] Simeon Bookmite: Just a something to ignore or pour weed killer on
[14:50] Gilles Kuhn: not so confident about that but trace of extinguished life probably
[14:50] Jago Constantine: You should read blindsight Simeon
[14:50] Jago Constantine: by peter watts
[14:50] Jago Constantine: or permanence by karl schroeder
[14:51] Zobeid Zuma: If there was ever life on Mars in the past, there will be some surviving.
[14:51] Simeon Bookmite: al la disch
[14:51] Zobeid Zuma: The only question is how deep you have to dig to find it.
[14:51] Jago Constantine: or um ... a story by bruce sterling
[14:51] Jago Constantine: Swarm
[14:52] Jago Constantine: all featuring non-conscious extraterrestrials
[14:52] Jago Constantine: civilisations
[14:52] Gilles Kuhn: which author jago?
[14:52] Simeon Bookmite: swarm that a short it rings a bell
[14:52] Jago Constantine: Blindsight - Peter Watts, Permanence - Karl Schroeder, Swarm - Bruce Sterling
[14:53] Jago Constantine: Swarm is a short story from the shaper/mechanist universe
[14:53] Simeon Bookmite: nods read it
[14:53] Simeon Bookmite: gotit from fictionwise
[14:53] Jago Constantine: so all those books explore the idea that intelligence isn't necessarily a survival trait for a species
[14:54] Jago Constantine: or um consciousness
[14:54] Simeon Bookmite: think we are very likely not to be human by the time we reach the stars
[14:55] Jago Constantine: well I've said here before I don't think we'll be sending humans to the stars like spam in a can ;P
[14:55] Zobeid Zuma: Well, not in a purely biological sense. . . But it will still be human civilization.
[14:55] Jago Constantine: It will be uploaded minds or something
[14:56] Jago Constantine: but yes, human as zobeid said
[14:56] Jago Constantine: part of a human clade
[14:56] Simeon Bookmite: think our minds will have changed
[14:56] Eddi Haskell: wha is a clade
[14:57] Jago Constantine: it is a term from biology
[14:57] Jago Constantine: an organism and its descendants
[14:57] Eddi Haskell: i looked it up
[14:57] Jago Constantine: so a human clade would be the human race and any races we spawn
[14:58] Jago Constantine: even, I think, uplifted animals
[14:58] Jago Constantine: or conscious machines
[14:58] Zobeid Zuma: That works for me. :)
[14:58] Simeon Bookmite: was a short story I cant track now
[14:58] Zobeid Zuma: We need more stories about AI and robots.
[14:58] Simeon Bookmite: that made me think
[14:59] Jago Constantine: because whatever methods we use to create a new species I don't think we'd be able to avoid doing it somewhat anthropocentrically
[14:59] Zobeid Zuma: Not HAL-like supercomputers, but commonplace independent AIs.
[15:00] Jago Constantine: ok now we're out of time - would anyone like a group invite?
[15:00] Eddi Haskell: i actually wanted to speak bout a book im reading lol
[15:00] Eddi Haskell: maybe next time
[15:00] Industria Dowler: I've got one. I'll try to make it next time.
[15:01] Industria Dowler: Thanks for hosting!
[15:01] Eddi Haskell: i need to get going now
[15:01] Jago Constantine: Thanks for coming
[15:01] Zobeid Zuma: see ya next week
[15:01] Eddi Haskell: see ya
[15:01] Simeon Bookmite: see you all next week
[15:01] Jago Constantine: see you next week 2pm saturday :)
[15:01] Industria Dowler: Jago, do you always post notices to Bookstacks?

23 January 2010: 'All You Zombies' by Robert A. Heinlein

[13:43] Eddi Haskell: hi im gonna get a sandwich :)
[13:43] Jago Constantine: ok
[13:52] Jago Constantine: Hey Sora :)
[13:53] Sora Bluebird: hello bosses
[13:53] Sora Bluebird: steram is already working and on
[13:53] Sora Bluebird: just waiting for your order
[13:53] Eddi Haskell: hi sora
[13:53] Sora Bluebird: hello eddi
[13:54] Jago Constantine: it was eddi's rez day yesterday sora :)
[13:55] Sora Bluebird: yes i know i told him cgs
[13:55] Garym Gartner: Hello
[13:55] Eddi Haskell: its a shame you cant eat cake in sl
[13:55] Eddi Haskell: hi garynn
[13:55] Jago Constantine: hey gary, welcome back!
[13:56] Jago Constantine: only four of the group are online
[13:56] Jago Constantine: lol
[13:57] Sora Bluebird: maybe they went to see the avatar
[13:57] Jago Constantine: lol
[13:57] Jago Constantine: I saw an Avatar avatar in SL
[13:57] Sora Bluebird: i was hited on by one
[13:57] Jago Constantine: have you seen it Eddi?
[13:57] Jago Constantine: It's fantastic
[13:57] Sora Bluebird: yes its very well made
[13:58] Jago Constantine: I bet furries love it lol
[13:58] Jago Constantine: Hi, DJudson, welcome :)
[13:59] Jago Constantine: Welcome, Jena :)
[13:59] DJudson Baran: HI ALL. I TO AM A FAN
[13:59] Jago Constantine: It's slow rezzing here
[13:59] Jena Delwood: hi
[13:59] Jago Constantine: Take a seat when you see one :)
[13:59] Jago Constantine: oh it might be occupied lol
[14:00] Garym Gartner: Is anyone here going to Boskone?
[14:00] Jago Constantine: I'm in Australia so no :P
[14:00] Garym Gartner: No, that would be a long trip for you. And I hear you've got a more local con coming up. :)
[14:00] Jago Constantine: Oh and if you can turn on your audio streams
[14:00] Jago Constantine: Because this meeting we're listening to a reading
[14:01] Jago Constantine: Podcast of All You Zombies, by Robert Heinlein ;)
[14:01] Eddi Haskell: so you put on multimedia and put music off?
[14:01] Jago Constantine: streaming music on
[14:01] Jago Constantine: media off
[14:01] Eddi Haskell: good
[14:01] Eddi Haskell: thats what i though
[14:01] Eddi Haskell: thought
[14:02] Garym Gartner: Getting music right now.
[14:02] Jago Constantine: we'll start the stream in a few minutes
[14:02] Jago Constantine: hmm I am getting nothing
[14:02] Jago Constantine: are you playing anything sora?
[14:02] Sora Bluebird: yes i am
[14:02] Jago Constantine: eep
[14:02] Sora Bluebird: its on
[14:02] Sora Bluebird: calm music going on
[14:02] Jago Constantine: ok classical music?
[14:02] Eddi Haskell: i hear classical type music
[14:02] Jago Constantine: cool :)
[14:03] Jago Constantine: now I hear it
[14:03] Jago Constantine: just had to stop and start
[14:03] Eddi Haskell: areyou supposed to hear classical music?
[14:03] Jago Constantine: yes
[14:03] Eddi Haskell: ok
[14:03] Sora Bluebird: untill he tells me to start ,yes :P
[14:04] Jago Constantine: So yes anyway Eddi - go see Avatar in 3D :)
[14:04] Eddi Haskell: yeah they have that in fort lauderdale
[14:05] Jago Constantine: maybe I'll make next meeting an avatar discussion meeting :)
[14:05] Jago Constantine: Ok Sora let's start
[14:05] Sora Bluebird: ok then
[14:06] Jago Constantine: This is from the Escape Pod podcast
[14:06] Garym Gartner: Grabbing my copy to read along
[14:06] Jago Constantine: cool
[14:07] Jago Constantine: are you all hearing it now?
[14:07] Garym Gartner: yes
[14:07] Eddi Haskell: :)
[14:07] DJudson Baran: VOLUMNEN LOW
[14:08] Jago Constantine: mine is ok
[14:08] Sora Bluebird: turn your volume on sl
[14:08] Jago Constantine: make sure your music volume slider is up
[14:09] Jago Constantine: hi folks, we just started the podcast
[14:12] Athena Maeterlinck: Ahh well that would explain why Its so quiet.
[14:13] Jago Constantine: we're listening to All You Zombies by RObert Heinlein
[14:14] Galena Qi: Man, am I having lag issues today.
[14:14] Jago Constantine: slow rezzing here
[14:28] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:31] Garym Gartner: We're listening to a podcast.
[14:31] Sora Bluebird: sure, why not! XD
[14:31] Garym Gartner: Sorry, IM response intended.
[14:38] Jago Constantine: Ok I think we can stop it thanks Sora :)
[14:39] Jago Constantine: What did you all think?
[14:39] Garym Gartner: It's always a fun story.
[14:39] Jago Constantine: Yes, I like it too
[14:39] DJudson Baran: i HAD FORGOTEN. i READ IT YEARS AGO
[14:40] Sora Bluebird: done jago
[14:40] Jago Constantine: Thanks!
[14:40] Sora Bluebird: you can change stream if ya like tough XD
[14:40] Jago Constantine: Its one of the ultimate time travel paradox stories
[14:40] Garym Gartner: The end still puzzles me. She/he seems to be saying nobody but her time-loop selves are real.
[14:41] Jago Constantine: Yes that kind of puzzles me too
[14:41] Jago Constantine: 'all you zombies'
[14:42] Garym Gartner: It's similar to another Heinlein story, "By His Bootstraps."
[14:42] DJudson Baran: VERY ENTERTAINING
[14:42] Jago Constantine: I'm not sure how likely it is that the character would so willingly seduce himself
[14:42] Jago Constantine: especially considering his own feelings of betrayal
[14:42] Garym Gartner: Yeah, that's a weak point.
[14:43] Jago Constantine: I suppose you're just supposed to accept that as part of the build-up
[14:43] Garym Gartner: Sex change was very rare then, now we're kind of used to it.
[14:43] DJudson Baran: KEEP POSTING THESE MEETINGS. I WILL BE BACK NEXT TIME
[14:43] Jago Constantine: Would you like an invitation to the group?
[14:43] Jago Constantine: oh missed him
[14:44] Garym Gartner: So what's next on the schedule?
[14:44] Jago Constantine: Well listening to the story and discussing it was all for this week :)
[14:44] Garym Gartner: I meant next time.
[14:44] Jago Constantine: Next week is a regular what-we've-been-reading meeting
[14:45] Garym Gartner: I'll see if I can make it; things are starting to get busy with Boskone prep.
[14:45] Jago Constantine: Sure
[14:45] Jago Constantine: Oh do you have any other time travel stories to recommend?
[14:45] Jago Constantine: My favourite is Sound of Thunder
[14:46] Garym Gartner: Hmm.. let me think. I don't know that one.
[14:46] Jago Constantine: A Sound of Thunder by Ray Bradbury
[14:46] Jago Constantine: The stepping on a butterfly one
[14:47] Garym Gartner: There's the world's shortest time travel story: "Grandpa shot first."
[14:47] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:47] Jago Constantine: http://www.lasalle.edu/~didio/courses/hon462/hon462_assets/sound_of_thunder.htm
[14:47] Jago Constantine: Here is an online version of Thunder
[14:48] Jago Constantine: Eddi you there?
[14:48] Eddi Haskell: yes
[14:48] Jago Constantine: did you like the story?
[14:48] Athena Maeterlinck: Yeah certainly not the best one out there but it may have been more impressive for its time
[14:48] Eddi Haskell: i coluld not figure it out
[14:48] Eddi Haskell: made no sense
[14:48] Eddi Haskell: but i liked the story
[14:49] Garym Gartner: Thanks for the link. The beginning of that reminds me of "A Gun for Dinosaur." De Camp, I think?
[14:49] Eddi Haskell: i would do better reading the story beforehand and then listening to it
[14:49] Jago Constantine: maybe so :)
[14:49] Garym Gartner: Yes, De Camp. Just checked.
[14:49] Jago Constantine: the main character is basically his own father and mother
[14:50] Garym Gartner: Ah. That's more like this story than Gun for Dinosaur, then?
[14:50] Jago Constantine: I was explaining Zombies to Eddi
[14:51] Eddi Haskell: oh i see
[14:52] Jago Constantine: he was born with male and female gonads
[14:52] Jago Constantine: raised in an orphanage as a girl
[14:52] Jago Constantine: falls pregnant
[14:52] Eddi Haskell: why is it science fiction?
[14:52] Jago Constantine: has a sex change and the baby is stolen
[14:52] Jago Constantine: he becomes a writer
[14:53] Garym Gartner: Time travel, odd biology ... I think those count as science fiction.
[14:53] Jago Constantine: then he's taken back in time as a male
[14:53] Jago Constantine: where he seduces his female self and gets her pregnant
[14:53] Eddi Haskell: oh wow
[14:53] Jago Constantine: he's picked up and brought forward in time to become a time agent
[14:54] Jago Constantine: as an older man he picks his writer self up and takes him to seduce his female self
[14:54] Jago Constantine: then he steals the baby
[14:54] Eddi Haskell: ah
[14:54] Jago Constantine: then he delivers it to the orphanage
[14:55] Jago Constantine: then he collects his seducer self and brings him to the time travel place
[14:55] Jago Constantine: the story finishes with him missing his one love
[14:56] Jago Constantine: himself :P
[14:56] Eddi Haskell: did you get this from listening to the recording?
[14:56] Eddi Haskell: thats commendable
[14:56] Eddi Haskell: lol
[14:56] Jago Constantine: hehe
[14:56] Jago Constantine: it was written in 1958
[14:56] Garym Gartner: I'm not really sure who "I miss you terribly" at the end refers to.
[14:57] Jago Constantine: I figured it was himself from his one known relationship
[14:57] Jago Constantine: or herself
[14:57] Garym Gartner: Then the "zombies" are his other selves? Maybe.
[14:57] Jago Constantine: no I still figure that's everyone not him
[14:58] Jago Constantine: I suppose ...
[14:58] Jago Constantine: ok maybe I'm over analysing it
[14:58] Garym Gartner: But that's the fun of it!
[14:58] Jago Constantine: but the zombies comment could be about the consciousness paradox
[14:58] Jago Constantine: the impossibility of knowing other mind
[14:58] Jago Constantine: minds
[14:58] Garym Gartner: I think it is, with either interpretation.
[14:59] Jago Constantine: he's in this self-enclosed loop
[14:59] Jago Constantine: where he creates himself
[14:59] Garym Gartner: That was true in "By His Bootstraps," too.
[14:59] Jago Constantine: he doesn't rely on the existence of anyone else to exist
[15:00] Jago Constantine: hmm not sure where I'm going with that
[15:01] Jago Constantine: Anwyay thanks for coming Gary and Eddi :)
[15:01] Jago Constantine: time for me to have breakfast
[15:01] Garym Gartner: We;ve got time travel right here. You're in Sunday, I'm in Saturday.
[15:01] Jago Constantine: lol
[15:01] Garym Gartner: See you later.
[15:02] Jago Constantine: cya next week maybe!

16 January 2010

[13:57] Drennen Piers: good afternoon
[13:57] Jago Constantine: oh hi, hiroya
[13:58] Hiroya Chrome: Just heard of this gathering a few minutes ago. Regular occurance?
[13:58] Hiroya Chrome: e
[13:58] Jago Constantine: yes its weekly from now on
[13:58] Drennen Piers: i think that's what the other gal was asking too
[13:58] Hiroya Chrome: Eddi Haskel... funny
[13:59] Drennen Piers: and if we were going to work on some fiction ourselves as a whole
[13:59] Eddi Haskell: why. Mrs. Cleaver likes me.
[13:59] Hiroya Chrome: so you are golden. ;-)
[13:59] Jago Constantine: ok no at the moment we don't work on creating fiction in the group :)
[13:59] Eddi Haskell: lol
[14:00] Jago Constantine: Anyway as I said the usual format is that we go round the group and discuss what we read since the last meeting
[14:00] Jago Constantine: For anyone new, every second meeting we listen to a podcast science fiction story and discuss that
[14:01] Jago Constantine: I didn't get a chance to read much over Christmas, but I did get Dan Simmons' Drood
[14:02] Jago Constantine: It's not really science fiction I suppose ... it's a historical novel set in Victorian London
[14:03] Drennen Piers: very nice...how is it so far?
[14:03] Jago Constantine: But Simmons is a great science fiction writer and the book has supernatural themes
[14:03] Jago Constantine: It was really enjoyable - the protagonist is Wilkie Collins and it revolves around his relationship with Charles Dickens
[14:04] Jago Constantine: and the sinister evil character Drood who lives in the underworld beneath London
[14:04] Drennen Piers: interesting
[14:06] Jago Constantine: Drood is a really nicely portrayed villain - something like the phantom of the opera
[14:06] Jago Constantine: lol he's wearing an opera cloak when we first see him
[14:06] Jago Constantine: or maybe dracula
[14:07] Drennen Piers: i think i might have to pick that up for a good read
[14:07] Drennen Piers: well i re-read Ender Game over the break by Orson Scott Card
[14:07] Camilla Delvalle: Wow I have read Enders Game
[14:07] Jago Constantine: cool that's always a good read
[14:07] Jago Constantine: hey camilla :)
[14:07] Camilla Delvalle: Hola!
[14:07] Drennen Piers: i like Card's worlds he creates
[14:07] Drennen Piers: hi Camilla
[14:08] Camilla Delvalle: brb
[14:09] Hiroya Chrome: Scott writes very well though his themes are repetitive
[14:09] Drennen Piers: i agree
[14:09] Jago Constantine: I haven't read any of his shadow series ...
[14:10] Hiroya Chrome: The Alvin Maker books are well imagined
[14:10] Jago Constantine: yeah I enjoyed those
[14:10] Jago Constantine: a nice alternate history
[14:11] Drennen Piers: i was going to read that series next from him
[14:11] Drennen Piers: i haven't had a chance yet
[14:11] Jago Constantine: ok hiroya - what have you been reading lately?
[14:11] Hiroya Chrome: Sad that they didn't make a movie of "Enders Game" before others plagiarized it
[14:12] Jago Constantine: yeah
[14:12] Jago Constantine: hey erica
[14:12] Jago Constantine: its slow rezzing here so maybe wait a bit before moving :)
[14:12] Erica Barbarossa: hm..still rezzing :-) that s why i hit walls... sorry..i interrupted you
[14:12] Erica Barbarossa: hi
[14:12] Camilla Delvalle: Who plagiarized Enders Game?
[14:12] Hiroya Chrome: Several non-fiction, but recent fiction has been "Towing Jehovah" and "The Philosopher's Apprentice" by Morrow
[14:13] Hiroya Chrome: Halo is fairly brazen
[14:13] Jago Constantine: ok I haven't read much morrow
[14:14] Jago Constantine: or any really
[14:14] Hiroya Chrome: I met Morrow on a panel in Montreal last summer. Interesting person so I picked up a couple of his books. Very good reads.
[14:14] Jago Constantine: cool
[14:15] Hiroya Chrome: TJ is not really SF, more fantasy.
[14:15] Jago Constantine: he has a few in that series, right?
[14:15] Hiroya Chrome: TPA is a modern Frankenstein
[14:16] Hiroya Chrome: He handles the deeper ideas as well as anyone working now. Reminds me of Huxley but a better writer
[14:17] Jago Constantine: ok thanks hiroya :)
[14:17] Jago Constantine: Hey Camilla - what have you read since we met last?
[14:17] Hiroya Chrome: Not everyone would agree about the "better writer" statement but I've been impressed
[14:17] Camilla Delvalle: Where to start?
[14:18] Camilla Delvalle: Well I got a sf book in christmas present from a secret admirer.
[14:18] Camilla Delvalle: But I havnet read it yet.
[14:18] Drennen Piers: mysterious
[14:18] Jago Constantine: ooh a secret admirer o.O
[14:18] Jago Constantine: What you didn't read my book!!!!
[14:18] Jago Constantine: :p
[14:18] Camilla Delvalle: Actually I know who sent it because I recognized the calligrafic writing.
[14:19] Camilla Delvalle: From an ex boyfriend.
[14:19] Jago Constantine: heh ok whats the book?
[14:19] Camilla Delvalle: Nova I think it is called.
[14:19] Camilla Delvalle: Anyway I have mostly seen anime series.
[14:20] Camilla Delvalle: I think I already told you about Chobits.
[14:20] Camilla Delvalle: Maybe I can talk about Revolutionary Girl Utena?
[14:20] Jago Constantine: heh first tell us who Nova is by :)
[14:21] Camilla Delvalle: I dont remember but it is the same as Babel 17 I think.
[14:21] Jago Constantine: Delany?
[14:21] Camilla Delvalle: Yes probably.
[14:21] Jago Constantine: of course
[14:21] Camilla Delvalle: Anyway, Utena is a fantasy series.
[14:21] Jago Constantine: ok I haven't seen that one
[14:21] Camilla Delvalle: It is like Neon Genesis Evangelion for girls
[14:22] Camilla Delvalle: And some of the same people were involved
[14:22] Camilla Delvalle: It is about the girl Utena that dress like a boy and is in a school
[14:22] Camilla Delvalle: And she is like a gentleman
[14:22] Jago Constantine: Hi, Born, welcome to Science Fiction Saturday
[14:22] Camilla Delvalle: One day her friend is slighted by a boy and she takes him to a duel
[14:23] Camilla Delvalle: But he is in the student council, and they want to "revolutionize the world"!!!
[14:23] Camilla Delvalle: And she is drawn into the plot without wanting it
[14:24] Camilla Delvalle: And when she wins the duel she gets "engaged" to another girl called Anthy
[14:24] Camilla Delvalle: And they all fight over Anthy
[14:24] Jago Constantine: ok so sounds like a standard anime plot :P
[14:24] Camilla Delvalle: Have you seen Evangelion?
[14:24] Jago Constantine: yes, its one of my favourite science fiction anime
[14:24] Camilla Delvalle: Yes it is mostly a duel every second episodes
[14:24] Jago Constantine: my favourite is probably Planetes
[14:25] Camilla Delvalle: I loved Utena but I'm not sure if anyone else would because I have a strange taste.
[14:25] Jago Constantine: which is a hard SF series
[14:25] Camilla Delvalle: it is very strange and bizarre
[14:25] Jago Constantine: ok cool thanks Camilla
[14:25] Jago Constantine: Eddi - have you read any sci fi over the break?
[14:26] Eddi Haskell: close
[14:26] Eddi Haskell: i finished the year three million book
[14:26] Camilla Delvalle: And I read some analysis afterwards, it is possible to do a lot of analyzis of it
[14:26] Drennen Piers: nothing wrong with strange and bizarre
[14:26] Eddi Haskell: you want to continue drennen or camilla?
[14:26] Camilla Delvalle: Maybe the quality is not good in every episode, no I'm finished now
[14:26] Eddi Haskell: ok
[14:26] Drennen Piers: same...go ahead eddi
[14:27] Eddi Haskell: there are two things that intrigued me.
[14:27] Jago Constantine: ok this is the book Year Million that I read too, right :)
[14:27] Eddi Haskell: first, the idea that we can travel intergallcally by fax
[14:27] Jago Constantine: non-fiction
[14:27] Eddi Haskell: well for me its fiction
[14:27] Eddi Haskell: since it is not proven it can be done
[14:27] Jago Constantine: sure
[14:27] Eddi Haskell: but yes in the non fiction genre
[14:28] Eddi Haskell: bizarrely
[14:28] Eddi Haskell: i was reading a section
[14:28] Jago Constantine: I think faxing is more plausible than FTL travel :)
[14:28] Eddi Haskell: and sure enough it mentioned second life
[14:28] Eddi Haskell: in the second paragraph
[14:28] Eddi Haskell: the analogy being is this
[14:28] Eddi Haskell: since 99% of us here
[14:28] Eddi Haskell: what we do
[14:28] Eddi Haskell: how we are constructed
[14:29] Eddi Haskell: much like dna
[14:29] Eddi Haskell: our interactions
[14:29] Eddi Haskell: are similar
[14:29] Eddi Haskell: it would be easy to put into place something that transforms matter
[14:29] Eddi Haskell: or emergy that can be converted into matter
[14:29] Eddi Haskell: and then reproduce us with "fax transmissions"
[14:30] Eddi Haskell: now i do not believe in the einstein theorum
[14:30] Jago Constantine: which one?
[14:30] Eddi Haskell: that nothing can travel faster then the speedo of light
[14:30] Eddi Haskell: not speedo light
[14:30] Eddi Haskell: that is what you wear jago
[14:30] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:30] Eddi Haskell: speedo of light
[14:30] Hiroya Chrome: no one can swim that fast?
[14:30] Eddi Haskell: so this is intriguing
[14:30] Drennen Piers: lol
[14:30] Eddi Haskell: lol
[14:31] Eddi Haskell: even
[14:31] Camilla Delvalle: Its a fun idea to travel by fax.
[14:31] Eddi Haskell: yeah
[14:31] Eddi Haskell: but
[14:31] Eddi Haskell: what is interesting this is not part of my discussion
[14:31] Eddi Haskell: is when so we stop being human and start being a series of compuatiatonal equations but that is another discussion
[14:31] Eddi Haskell: the second hyptheisis is that
[14:32] Hiroya Chrome: A FAX would make multiple copies possible... ala Star Tretk teleporter
[14:32] Eddi Haskell: ya know
[14:32] Eddi Haskell: my mom said that
[14:32] Eddi Haskell: she studied physics in college
[14:32] Eddi Haskell: we talked about it
[14:32] Eddi Haskell: now the second interesting point
[14:32] Eddi Haskell: is that over time
[14:32] Jago Constantine: hey simeon :)
[14:32] Eddi Haskell: as colonies of humans or whatever we are
[14:33] Eddi Haskell: become farrther apart
[14:33] Simeon Bookmite: Hi
[14:33] Eddi Haskell: hi simon
[14:33] Eddi Haskell: this will impact
[14:33] Eddi Haskell: different evolutions
[14:33] Camilla Delvalle: yes it will
[14:33] Jago Constantine: that makes sence
[14:33] Eddi Haskell: this could fragment our perception of humans as entity
[14:33] Jago Constantine: sense
[14:33] Eddi Haskell: i think everyone should read this book
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: jago told me about it
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: they are expensive but
[14:34] Pillow 27 whispers: Simeon Bookmite, use shift + left/right arrow keys to change pose
[14:34] Drennen Piers: wow! very interesting point
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: i found one for four bucks on egay
[14:34] Jago Constantine: Year Million, ed. Damien Broderick
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: ebay
[14:34] Jago Constantine: lol eddi
[14:34] Jago Constantine: egay and speedos
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: lol
[14:34] Camilla Delvalle: Is it very different from today in the book?
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: speedolight
[14:34] Jago Constantine: well the book is about the year million
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: oh yeah it goes to the year million
[14:34] Jago Constantine: so yes :)
[14:34] Hiroya Chrome: what is the speed of dark?
[14:35] Drennen Piers: nada
[14:35] Eddi Haskell: funny you say that
[14:35] Eddi Haskell: cause one of the theories is that we will find a way to digitiza dark space
[14:35] Jago Constantine: it is an anthology of different authors talking about their predictions: Greg Benford, Wil McCarthy, Rudy Rucker, George Zebrowski
[14:35] Drennen Piers: i'm intrigued for sure
[14:36] Simeon Bookmite: what does Digitiz dark space mean
[14:36] Drennen Piers: digitize lol
[14:36] Camilla Delvalle: The speed of a shadow can be faster than the speedolight I think.
[14:36] Eddi Haskell: how come
[14:36] Drennen Piers: then why is mine always behind me
[14:36] Camilla Delvalle: It is not physical to begin with.
[14:37] Hiroya Chrome: even a vacuum has energy
[14:37] Eddi Haskell: well one of the theories is this
[14:37] Fat SecretSpy: hey guys
[14:37] Eddi Haskell: as the universe explands
[14:37] Jago Constantine: Hi Fat
[14:37] Eddi Haskell: lag
[14:37] Fat SecretSpy: are you calling me fat!
[14:37] Eddi Haskell: through the next severla millionyears
[14:38] Camilla Delvalle: If you have a lighthouse, and look on a long distance (a lightyear), the point of light or shadow from the lighthouse will move very fast around in a circle.
[14:38] Jago Constantine: Yes lol
[14:38] Fat SecretSpy: good, cos thats my name
[14:39] Fat SecretSpy: so whats the topic?
[14:39] Hiroya Chrome: Still hanging on for the end of Eddi's sentence. ;-)
[14:39] Camilla Delvalle: The speed of darkness.
[14:39] Jago Constantine: science fiction - eddi is just talking about the book Year Million
[14:39] Eddi Haskell: now this author says
[14:39] Jago Constantine: which is non-fiction, but speculative
[14:39] Eddi Haskell: of course this universe dies
[14:39] Eddi Haskell: ultimately
[14:39] Jago Constantine: of course
[14:39] Eddi Haskell: since there is no big bang
[14:39] Fat SecretSpy: omg i saw this great fantasy book called the bible its full of whores and awesome magic powers
[14:39] Avatar ejected.
[14:40] Jago Constantine: booted
[14:40] Eddi Haskell: thak you what a putz
[14:40] Eddi Haskell: this intrigued me
[14:40] Simeon Bookmite: well done
[14:40] Eddi Haskell: we can store our codes for everything here
[14:40] Eddi Haskell: in this universe
[14:40] Eddi Haskell: in binary
[14:40] Eddi Haskell: in space dust and the areas areound it
[14:41] Eddi Haskell: i just dont think the universe is going to expand infinitely despite the physical obeservation now but that was interesting
[14:41] Eddi Haskell: this book had me thiking for a long time
[14:41] Jago Constantine: me too :)
[14:42] Eddi Haskell: other than that i got a book from Australia about the coup in 1975 but that is not science fiction just stupidity
[14:42] Eddi Haskell: and finished it
[14:42] Eddi Haskell: and i finished shawcrosses queen mum bio
[14:42] Jago Constantine: actually I don't think faxing is really how space travel will be achieved - I think the only plausible method is uploading people to machines and sending the machines
[14:42] Simeon Bookmite: what coupe in 1975?
[14:42] Eddi Haskell: but how fast can they go?
[14:43] Jago Constantine: lol not a coup
[14:43] Eddi Haskell: when they got rid of whitlam
[14:43] Hiroya Chrome: way too early in the day for any "only" statement. ;-)
[14:43] Jago Constantine: well it doesn't matter how fast a machine full of uploads goes
[14:43] Jago Constantine: because they can either be turned off or slow their perception of time
[14:43] Camilla Delvalle: People are machines.
[14:43] Drennen Piers: yes...i'm not alone
[14:44] Jago Constantine: lol simeon
[14:44] Jago Constantine: anyway thanks eddi
[14:44] Eddi Haskell: hey my one meeting where i am not like Bart simpson
[14:44] Jago Constantine: TienMu - did you want to talk about a science fiction book you read recently?
[14:44] Hiroya Chrome: group pressure spelling / vocabulary lessons.. :-)
[14:45] Simeon Bookmite: ah when the governor genral decided to cut the gordian Knot and upset everyone in australia
[14:45] Camilla Delvalle: But Jago, if you travel at high speed the travel will not seem to take very long anyway.
[14:45] TienMu Xuanzang: I've been re-reading lots of Heinlein. :-)
[14:45] TienMu's Google Translator: Re-I've been reading lots of Heinlein. :-)
[14:46] Jago Constantine: I don't think speeds will be achieved that will make interstellar travel seem fast to a human
[14:46] Camilla Delvalle: ok
[14:46] Camilla Delvalle: What Heinlein books?
[14:46] TienMu Xuanzang: Starship Troopers (ran across the movie trailer and got frustrated)
[14:46] Eddi Haskell: oh i love that movie
[14:47] Eddi Haskell: the original one
[14:47] Eddi Haskell: i like the shower scene
[14:47] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:47] Drennen Piers: book is by far better
[14:47] Camilla Delvalle: I also like the movie. (Dont know if it is original movie)
[14:47] TienMu Xuanzang: I liked the book better, too.
[14:47] TienMu Xuanzang: Are there two versions of it in movie form?
[14:47] Drennen Piers: but that's usually the case
[14:47] Camilla Delvalle: The movie is more like a comedy?
[14:47] Jago Constantine: there are sequels
[14:47] Eddi Haskell: im into uniform so i loved the movie
[14:48] Jago Constantine: I like both the movie and the book, but it would be more enjoyable for a heinlein fan to view any similarities as coincidental maybe :P
[14:48] Camilla Delvalle: Is the book more serious than the movie?
[14:48] TienMu Xuanzang: LOL
[14:49] Drennen Piers: depends on your definition of serious...when it comes to Heinlein lol
[14:49] TienMu Xuanzang: The book is very different. The bugs may be the only things that were kept for the movie.
[14:49] Drennen Piers: lol
[14:49] Camilla Delvalle: I have read a couple of books from Heinlein and I think they were serious.
[14:50] TienMu Xuanzang: Hard to say with Heinlein, but I believe he meant this one to be serious.
[14:50] Drennen Piers: yes he did
[14:50] TienMu Xuanzang: The idea of what should be required for a person to be considered a full citizen is interesting.
[14:50] Camilla Delvalle: What is required?
[14:51] TienMu Xuanzang: In the book, everyone who wants to be a citizen is required to serve a period of time in governement service.
[14:51] TienMu Xuanzang: This can be military, research, scrubbing floors, whatever.
[14:52] Simeon Bookmite: community service/ but military service in the context of the book.
[14:52] Eddi Haskell: i like it
[14:52] Eddi Haskell: then we have Sarah Palin as president in no time!
[14:52] TienMu Xuanzang: No one can be denied the chance, but if you don't finish your term of service, you will never be able to vote.
[14:53] TienMu Xuanzang: AIGUH! She can't even finish her term as governor. :-D
[14:53] Jago Constantine: hehe it reminds me of an idea I had once
[14:53] Jago Constantine: based on the slogan "no taxation without representation"
[14:53] Eddi Haskell: that was sarcastic on my part but my dog liked her at one point, until he got thrown out as a blogger and I am not amking this up.
[14:53] Jago Constantine: people get to choose: no tax and no vote, or tax and a vote
[14:54] Eddi Haskell: well that was the situraton in the uk for most of the 1800s
[14:54] TienMu Xuanzang: Hmmm. How high a tax?
[14:54] Eddi Haskell: and the south too , called a poll tax
[14:54] Simeon Bookmite: not really it was similar to the us at that time
[14:54] Jago Constantine: lol I didn't go that far into it
[14:54] Simeon Bookmite: no vote without land ownership
[14:55] Jago Constantine: I always like reading about weird taxes like window tax or beard tax
[14:55] Eddi Haskell: the movie startship troppers actually predicted many of the mechanisms of today
[14:55] Simeon Bookmite: american seem to have no troube taxing none citizens
[14:55] Eddi Haskell: in a way it was as well known as bladerunner for being predictive and visionary
[14:56] Eddi Haskell: even those reality shows were in starship troopers
[14:56] Jago Constantine: I think starship troopers has stood up well since it was released
[14:56] Simeon Bookmite: one of the ancient greek city state taxed people who's door opened Outwar on to the city streets
[14:56] Jago Constantine: hehe cool
[14:56] Yomatto Torres: 1st 1 was good but 2nd, not so much
[14:57] Yomatto Torres: Yo People
[14:57] Jago Constantine: Yo, Yo
[14:57] Ugene Ogrimund: Hey!
[14:57] Simeon Bookmite: lol
[14:57] Jago Constantine: We're just winding up this week's meeting I'm afraid
[14:57] Jago Constantine: Hi, Ugene
[14:57] Jago Constantine: Would anyone like a group invite?
[14:59] Jago Constantine: Ok so the next meeting is next saturday at 2pm
[14:59] Simeon Bookmite: i listened to the Podcast of Fledging this week
[14:59] Jago Constantine: never heard of it :P
[14:59] Yomatto Torres: plenty time to save Vvardenfell then
[14:59] Eddi Haskell: ya know what is cool
[14:59] Eddi Haskell: next saturday is the new babbage air race
[14:59] Eddi Haskell: steampunk
[15:00] Simeon Bookmite: In the Lieden Universe series
[15:00] Jago Constantine: too bad no one here can go because of this meeting
[15:00] Jago Constantine: heh
[15:00] Camilla Delvalle: There are a couple of elevator songs from Utena on youtube.
[15:00] Camilla Delvalle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3e2GwpZ7ug
[15:00] Camilla Delvalle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW4q5bMJVA8
[15:00] Simeon Bookmite: we are interving the authors for our pod cast next week
[15:01] Simeon Bookmite: they are published by Baen
[15:01] Camilla Delvalle: The second is about Greek philosophy! Have you ever heard a song about philosophy?
[15:01] Jago Constantine: monty python did one
[15:01] Camilla Delvalle: Yes you are right.
[15:01] Yomatto Torres: LOL
[15:02] Simeon Bookmite: any how tiome to wrap up
[15:02] Jago Constantine: yes I have to go for breakfast
[15:02] Hiroya Chrome: Wandering on for now. Nice to meet all of you.
[15:02] Eddi Haskell: bye hiroya!
[15:02] Simeon Bookmite: bye folks
[15:02] Jago Constantine: thanks for coming folks - see you next week
[15:02] Eddi Haskell: see ya folks1
[15:02] Yomatto Torres: )
[15:02] TienMu Xuanzang: Bye. :-)
[15:02] Eddi Haskell: if anyone wants a kiosk to put out for haiti ask me
[15:03] Jago Constantine: Sorry Edward - we're winding up
[15:03] Edward Aelberts: It's okay. I had a feeling I was too late. ^^;
[15:03] Drennen Piers: thanks for the get book tips...i'm going to pick me up a copy of year million today
[15:03] Jago Constantine: good to hear :)
[15:03] Jago Constantine: cya all