27 June 2009: Walpole

[13:51] Jago Constantine: hey, purple, welcome :)
[13:51] Purple Baum: hi
[13:51] Jago Constantine: this is our steampunk airship :P
[13:51] Purple Baum: `So let me change into something that matches the decor, brb
[13:52] Jago Constantine: heh ok / eddi put on your suit :P / the one from made men lol
[13:53] Eddi Haskell: oen second
[13:53] Jago Constantine: ok
[13:53] Eddi Haskell: its messed up now / ok
[13:53] Jago Constantine: we can always re-rez the airship / Welcome back :)
[13:53] Purple Baum: I'm back
[13:54] Jago Constantine: cool outfit
[13:54] Purple Baum: Here is my steampunk backpack, it's still a work in progress
[13:54] Jago Constantine: it's great!
[13:54] Jago Constantine: is it a jetpack or for breathing?
[13:54] Jago Constantine: or something else
[13:54] Purple Baum: I am also working on a gun. I just started building it today so it's very basic
[13:55] Purple Baum: It's the powerpack for the gun
[13:55] Jago Constantine: ah cool / it might be tricky connecting the two
[13:55] Eddi Haskell: im gonna log in again
[13:55] Eddi Haskell: im using snowglobe and it is very pretty
[13:55] Eddi Haskell: but
[13:55] Eddi Haskell: i cant figure things out
[13:55] Jago Constantine: Hey, Jack, welcome :)
[13:55] Eddi Haskell: snowglobe looks good / be right back
[13:56] Purple Baum: Yeah. I am pretty new to building so I am still looking for ideas (and tutorials) on how to connect them
[13:56] Jack Ozigard: hi all
[13:56] Jago Constantine: maybe something like lockmeister
[13:56] Jago Constantine: this is our steampunk airship, jack
[13:57] Jago Constantine: feel free to take a seat, both of you :)
[13:57] Purple Baum: ty / Here's the gun
[13:57] Jago Constantine: very nice
[13:58] Jack Ozigard: nice ship :)
[13:58] Jago Constantine: Yeah, it's amazing ... Eddi was given it for free I think
[13:58] Jago Constantine: he did some photography in the creator's vessels
[13:58] Eddi Haskell: back
[13:59] Jago Constantine: Welcome back, Eddi :)
[13:59] Eddi Haskell: snowglobe looks great but it is confusing
[13:59] Eddi Haskell: the new viewer
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: ive come out with two new videos in the past two days
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: one on caledon
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: the steampunk community
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: and one on steampunk airships
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: they are really just photo montages
[14:00] Jago Constantine: hey, melch :)
[14:00] Melch Savon: Hey Everybody!
[14:01] Jago Constantine: Ok, well we can start
[14:01] Jago Constantine: For new attendees - basically, we go 'round the circle and each talk about what we read last
[14:02] Jago Constantine: that's the basic framework but there's a lot of latitude in our conversation :)
[14:02] Melch Savon: We're 300 feet up -- don't you mean altitude?
[14:02] Jago Constantine: lol / I've been reading some of Kevin Anderson's novels
[14:03] Melch Savon: Which novels are those?
[14:03] Jago Constantine: his fat space opera - The Saga of Seven Suns
[14:03] Melch Savon: ah
[14:04] Jago Constantine: I admire the man for being able to write so much
[14:04] Jago Constantine: but he's very workmanlike, I don't think anyone would accuse him of being a poet
[14:05] Purple Baum: This is the same Kevin Aderson that was co-writing the new Dune noverl, right?
[14:05] Jago Constantine: yeah / I really can't forgive him and Brian Herbert for those
[14:06] Purple Baum: I agree
[14:06] Jago Constantine: I've said before in these meetings that Brian Herbert was developing his own, distinct whimsical style
[14:06] Jago Constantine: which I really enjoyed
[14:06] Purple Baum: I enjoyed the first on mostly because of the novelty but after that it was not good
[14:07] Jago Constantine: but obviously the $$$$ were too enticing
[14:07] Purple Baum: *one
[14:07] Purple Baum: I am reading Illium by Dan Simmons
[14:07] Jago Constantine: Great!
[14:07] Jago Constantine: I love it
[14:07] Jago Constantine: How are you finding it?
[14:08] Purple Baum: I'm about a 200 pages in. So far it's interesting
[14:08] Jago Constantine: It's one of my favourites - although I was disappointed by the sequel, Olympos
[14:09] Purple Baum: I enjoyed Hyperion / and most of it's 3 sequels
[14:09] Jago Constantine: for those of you who haven't read it, Ilium is set in the far future
[14:09] Jago Constantine: and somehow in ancient troy
[14:09] Jago Constantine: where the greek gods are real
[14:10] Jago Constantine: welcome, don :)
[14:10] DonJuan Writer: allo
[14:10] Purple Baum: Hello
[14:10] Jago Constantine: is that a new moustache?
[14:11] DonJuan Writer: it's a dali handmedown
[14:11] Jago Constantine: nice
[14:11] Jago Constantine: I liked the hyperion series too, Purple
[14:11] Jago Constantine: but some of Dan Simmons' works I can't get into
[14:12] Jago Constantine: there was one about a retired astronaut, I can't recall the name
[14:12] Jago Constantine: I loved The Terror
[14:12] Jago Constantine: about an expedition to find the northwest passage
[14:13] Jago Constantine: Ok, Eddi - have you read anything this week?
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: yes
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: sorry
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: phone
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: ok
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: Professor Panini
by Matthew Grigg
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: isa s short story
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: its set in 2028
[14:14] Jago Constantine: cool
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: and some professor has made a machine
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: that allows you to exchange your thought , actually your brain
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: with someone else
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: so first he tries it on a duck and a dog
[14:14] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: it works but / the dog goes crazy / cause hes a duck / and tries to fly / but ducks cant fly / so / he runs into the maching / machine / before the dog kills himself jumping off the balcony
[14:15] Jago Constantine: so he's chased by a vicious duck dog
[14:15] Eddi Haskell: the nachine / yes
[14:15] Jago Constantine: :)
[14:15] Eddi Haskell: well he has a special machine that makes toasted bagels
[14:15] Eddi Haskell: all he has to go is say
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: buttered sesame
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: and the machine gives you a buttered bagle
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: so
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: he accidentlaly changes minds
[14:16] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: with the machine / and he dont know what to do / so / he gets the maching to call 911
[14:16] Jago Constantine: welcome back, jack
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: the emergency service
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: hi
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: by flinging bagles at the telephone
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: they police come
[14:17] Eddi Haskell: and he keeps on flinging bagels at the police
[14:17] Eddi Haskell: and they cant figutre it out
[14:17] Jack Ozigard: (the region was suddenly gone)
[14:17] Eddi Haskell: so / at the end of the story he accepts his fate / and spends the rest of his life as a butter toaster making bagles for some rich family
[14:17] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:17] Eddi Haskell: iom not making that up / deep hih
[14:18] Jack Ozigard: which book is that eddi?
[14:18] Jago Constantine: that's pretty weird lol
[14:18] Melch Savon: now that is a funny story
[14:18] Eddi Haskell: ill give you the rul
[14:18] Eddi Haskell: url
[14:18] Eddi Haskell: i liked it
[14:18] Eddi Haskell: http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/ProfPani724.shtml
[14:19] Eddi Haskell: jago if i had to pick a story to read would it be that one?
[14:19] Jago Constantine: for the group?
[14:19] Eddi Haskell: yes / i thinik it is very me
[14:19] Jago Constantine: it is :P
[14:20] DonJuan Writer: reminds me of red dwarf, there's a manically bored toaster in that
[14:20] Eddi Haskell: yeah / i thought it was an allegory
[14:20] Jago Constantine: yes lol / I like the toaster from red dwarf
[14:20] Eddi Haskell: its my birthday / lol
[14:20] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:20] Jago Constantine: happy birthday again, babe :)
[14:21] Purple Baum: Happy Birthday
[14:21] Eddi Haskell: thanks!
[14:21] Melch Savon: Happy Birthday Eddi -- doing something fun I hope!
[14:21] Jack Ozigard: happy birthday!
[14:21] Eddi Haskell: thanks people
[14:21] Jack Ozigard: I forgot to bring presents
[14:21] DonJuan Writer: I raise my glass to you
[14:22] Eddi Haskell: aww thanks
[14:22] DonJuan Writer: every seven seconds
[14:22] Jago Constantine: lol don
[14:22] Melch Savon: here it is -- bday cake all around
[14:22] Jago Constantine: So, Don - what did you read last?
[14:23] Melch Savon gave you Slice of Birthday Cake.
[14:23] Slice of Birthday Cake whispers: HAPPY BIRTHDAY, & Best Wishes
[14:23] Slice of Birthday Cake whispers: HAPPY BIRTHDAY, & Best Wishes
[14:23] Slice of Birthday Cake whispers: HAPPY BIRTHDAY, & Best Wishes
[14:23] Slice of Birthday Cake whispers: HAPPY BIRTHDAY, & Best Wishes
[14:23] Slice of Birthday Cake whispers: HAPPY BIRTHDAY, & Best Wishes
[14:23] DonJuan Writer: I'm writing at the moment, reading tends to remind me of things I haven't thought of and slow me down
[14:23] Jago Constantine: heh cool cake melch
[14:23] Slice of Birthday Cake whispers: HAPPY BIRTHDAY, & Best Wishes
[14:23] Melch Savon: Always be prepared with da props
[14:23] Eddi Haskell: yeah it is
[14:23] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:23] Melch Savon: What are you writing donjuan?
[14:24] DonJuan Writer: working on a sci-fi story about the deepest hole in the world
[14:24] Melch Savon: ... a tunnel to the other side?
[14:24] Jago Constantine: is this a bottomless pit?
[14:25] Melch Savon apologies -- he is doing matrix math at the moment, and his mind is all logical
[14:25] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:25] DonJuan Writer: well, was summising on this, what would happen if one jumped into a tunnel through the world, would you bounce in and out through the different polarity of gravity until you levitated in the middle?
[14:25] Jago Constantine: That's what I assume
[14:25] Melch Savon: Ignoring heat and pressure in the center of a huge gravity well
[14:25] Jago Constantine: Actually, wouldn't the deepest hole only go to the centre? If it went further it would be getting shallower again
[14:25] DonJuan Writer: so, there is a gravitational singularity going on there
[14:26] Melch Savon: There is a centerpoint where the forces balance out
[14:26] DonJuan Writer: where the force balnces out, luke?
[14:26] Jago Constantine: yeah, zero g in the centre
[14:26] Melch Savon: Right
[14:26] Purple Baum: Wouldn't you shoot out from the other side?
[14:27] Melch Savon: Purple, no, because once you go through the center the net pull is back to the center
[14:27] DonJuan Writer: oh, well, it's all an unfolding story, like the Kraken Wakes, about the build up to and the eventual digging
[14:27] Jago Constantine: In Iain Banks' non-culture novel The Algebraist, everyone in the universe uses warp from deep space except for one group who cleverly use it from the core of gas giants where they live
[14:27] Melch Savon: oh, I like that premise
[14:27] DonJuan Writer: cleverness in a darwinian sense there
[14:28] Jago Constantine: that's kind of a spoiler actually, but not too big / so this hole gets dug in your story? / that would be a monumental effort
[14:30] Jack Ozigard: it reminds me of the hollow earth theory though
[14:30] Jago Constantine: yes ... journey to the centre of the earth
[14:30] DonJuan Writer: yes, it's a desperate measure to solve a problem... don't ask me more 'cause it aint writted yet
[14:30] Jago Constantine: this is beyond the centre of the earth :P / Ok, Melch - your turn :)
[14:31] Melch Savon: This week I re-listened to the original Hitchiker Guide to the Galaxy radio broadcasts
[14:31] Jago Constantine: nice
[14:31] DonJuan Writer: oh, had those on lp as a kid
[14:31] Melch Savon: Everyone here is probably familiar with them, but I still think they are the best telling of the story
[14:31] Jago Constantine: I like the books best :P
[14:32] Jago Constantine: hehe
[14:32] Melch Savon: Arthur Dent remains beautifully clueless
[14:32] DonJuan Writer: if the radio series is the same as the lp's, I agree with you melch
[14:32] Melch Savon: Beyond that, I noted that the USA gave us Indiana Jones with a big whip; the Brits gave us Doctor Who with a big scarf (Tom Baker). I am wondering how to interpret that
[14:33] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:33] Jack Ozigard: lol
[14:33] Jago Constantine: Was the scarf ever used as a weapon?
[14:33] Jago Constantine: I mean more than for tripping or blinding people
[14:33] Melch Savon: no, but often as a tool
[14:33] Purple Baum: USA also gave yes Yogurt with a big schwartz
[14:33] Purple Baum: *us
[14:33] DonJuan Writer: as a segue, an american invited me (a brit) to his fourth of july picnic... my Russian friend said, "Was he too cheap to rent a clown?"
[14:34] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:34] Melch Savon: flip switches from a distance without exposing yourself to the laser ray, that sort of thing
[14:34] Jago Constantine: that's a good line I might use that
[14:34] Melch Savon: donjuan, we have presidents to play that role every day of the year
[14:34] Jago Constantine: I can totally see Tom Baker strangling someone with a scarg
[14:34] Jago Constantine: f
[14:34] Melch Savon: doctor who -- serial murderer
[14:34] DonJuan Writer: what? I thought there had been a change?!? ;)
[14:35] Jago Constantine: the perfect crime
[14:35] Jago Constantine: locked room mysteries are easy with a tardis
[14:35] Melch Savon: Same basic policies, same general disillusionment, some destruction of the dollar. No, not really much of a change.
[14:36] DonJuan Writer: There is a new president called Obama, who came claiming change to the drama, there's a stock-market crash, so he's printed some cash, now we're pinning our hopes on his karma
[14:36] DonJuan Writer: boom-boom
[14:36] Melch Savon thinks that might be an amusing bit of fan fiction -- Dr. Who, aka Jack the Ripper?
[14:36] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:37] Melch Savon: Pretty much. Started printing money Bush's last term, went into overdrive under Obama
[14:37] Melch Savon: anyways that was it for me this week
[14:37] Jago Constantine: The Doctor was seen at the garden party at the same time as the murders occurred ... so he has an alibi
[14:37] DonJuan Writer: but an enjoyable limmerick, noe-the-less?
[14:37] Melch Savon: *grin* Of course he does!
[14:37] Jack Ozigard: yes
[14:38] Jago Constantine: then explain the distinctive scarf-hairs on the victim's throat
[14:38] Melch Savon: Reasonable doubt. The Queen herself was visiting him in his cell at Torchwood
[14:38] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:39] Jago Constantine: then he regenerates and blends into the crowds like hannibal lecter
[14:39] Melch Savon: Now I think we confuse him with The Master
[14:39] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:39] Melch Savon: Who, ironically, is the true hero of our story
[14:39] Jago Constantine: ooh what a twist
[14:39] Jago Constantine: Anyway ... Jack - read any good books lately?
[14:39] Jack Ozigard: well, no
[14:39] Jack Ozigard: that is
[14:40] Jack Ozigard: I don't read a lot of books but rather short stories from amateur writers
[14:40] Jago Constantine: cool
[14:40] Jack Ozigard: and I was workling on my owen story which is incidentally a jack the ripper meets steampunk thing
[14:41] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:41] Jago Constantine: feel free to use our idea :P
[14:41] Melch Savon: I've infected the room with a meme!
[14:41] Jack Ozigard: it seems to be very difficult to do
[14:41] Jago Constantine: just make it HG Wells' time traveller
[14:41] Jago Constantine: and voila
[14:41] Melch Savon: Oh, Jago, how *original*
[14:41] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:41] Jack Ozigard: people keep telling "that is not how it was with jack the ripper"
[14:42] Jack Ozigard: readers know the facts
[14:42] Jago Constantine: yeah
[14:42] Melch Savon: fine, change the character to ... Mina Harker?
[14:42] Jack Ozigard: I do too, and avoidthed the name jack, set in in 1915 or thereabout
[14:43] Jack Ozigard: no, I introduced rabbi löw into the story :)
[14:43] Eddi Haskell: was he a haskellski?
[14:43] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:43] Jack Ozigard: he raised the golem
[14:44] Jago Constantine: cool
[14:44] Jack Ozigard: I will think about the Dr Who vs Jack the ripper thing
[14:45] Melch Savon: Hey story ideas are bountiful. good ideas less so, but still ...
[14:45] Melch Savon: /ao off
[14:46] Jago Constantine: Ok, Purple - what did you read this week?
[14:46] Purple Baum: Well, before Illium I was reading "Venus on a half shell"
[14:47] Purple Baum: It's by Kilgore Trout
[14:47] Jago Constantine: cool
[14:47] Purple Baum: But the real author is Philip Jose Farmer
[14:47] Jago Constantine: I never read that one
[14:47] Jago Constantine: but I've heard of it a lot
[14:48] Jago Constantine: what's it about?
[14:48] Purple Baum: He got permission from Kurt Vonnegut to use the Name Kilgore Trout as a psudoname
[14:49] Purple Baum: It's about the last human travelling through space with an owl a dog and a female robot trying to figure out the meaning of "everything"
[14:49] Jago Constantine: nice
[14:49] Jack Ozigard: a female robot?
[14:50] Purple Baum: He encounters weird civilizations and pokes fun at government, sex and other things
[14:50] Jack Ozigard: it sounds odd
[14:50] Purple Baum: It's pretty amusing and very sarcastic
[14:51] Jago Constantine: sounds like Farmer
[14:51] Purple Baum: And yes a female robot. Her story is another bit of sarcasm
[14:52] Purple Baum: The book has been out of print. I got a used copy off of amazon
[14:52] Jago Constantine: yeah that's why I never read it
[14:52] Jago Constantine: hard to find
[14:53] Purple Baum: I'm not sure what I'll read next, but I am interested in reading "Roadside Picnic"
[14:54] Purple Baum: It's the book that is the base for the story of the movie and videogame "STALKER"
[14:55] Jago Constantine: I love roadside picnic
[14:55] Jago Constantine: strugatsky brothers
[14:55] Jago Constantine: I think that's the name
[14:55] Purple Baum: So I'll probably get it but it's also out of print
[14:55] Jago Constantine: I think it's available again
[14:55] Jago Constantine: in one of those sci fi masterworks kind of editions
[14:55] Purple Baum: I'll check it out
[14:57] Jago Constantine: Ok, it's getting on to 3pm - time to wind up :)
[14:57] Eddi Haskell: before everyone goes would you like to see this picture i found?
[14:57] Jago Constantine: I have to go have some breakfast
[14:57] Jago Constantine: lol eddi
[14:57] Eddi Haskell: of my haskell family ancestors arriving on ellis island in 1914
[14:57] Melch Savon: DonJuan, Jack -- I am curious, do you two use writing software?
[14:57] Eddi Haskell: from Eastern Europe
[14:57] Melch Savon: Eddi - sure!
[14:58] Eddi Haskell: thats my great grandmother
[14:58] Jack Ozigard: picture - yes please
[14:58] Eddi Haskell: ida haskellski
[14:58] Eddi Haskell: they say we look alike
[14:58] Jack Ozigard: software? no. I can do a bit of programming though
[14:58] Jago Constantine: A friend of mine writes using this
[14:58] Jago Constantine: http://www.spacejock.com/yWriter5.html
[14:58] Jago Constantine: It's a free program
[14:58] Jago Constantine: lol eddi
[14:59] Jack Ozigard: a in that sense.
[14:59] Eddi Haskell: and that is great uncle yankel haskellski. They cold only afford a girls outfit
[14:59] Eddi Haskell: he went on to invent the junk bond
[14:59] Melch Savon: Thanks Jago. I've seen it, but find my spreadsheet is better. I have been thinking about buying a Mac program, like StoryMill
[14:59] Jack Ozigard: I was used to use a typewriter. that did not have any software
[14:59] Melch Savon: Eddi - are you kidding?
[14:59] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:59] Eddi Haskell: well
[14:59] Jago Constantine: yes he is
[14:59] Eddi Haskell: people say i look like them
[14:59] Eddi Haskell: lol
[15:00] Eddi Haskell: isnt that photo priceless?
[15:00] Melch Savon: It is pretty cool
[15:00] Jago Constantine: hehehe
[15:00] Jago Constantine: Anyway, I'm not sure where next week's meeting will be ...
[15:00] Purple Baum: I can see the resemblance
[15:00] Eddi Haskell: yes
[15:00] Eddi Haskell: welljago isnt it july 4?
[15:01] Jago Constantine: we are planning to move our land to the new adult continent
[15:01] Eddi Haskell: we have to have firworks
[15:01] Jago Constantine: is it? what is the significance of that date>
[15:01] Melch Savon: Identical faces -- you photoshopped them in?
[15:01] Eddi Haskell: there is a program photofunia that is an effect they have
[15:01] Eddi Haskell: online editing
[15:01] Melch Savon: ah
[15:01] Eddi Haskell: i have to admit its funny
[15:02] Eddi Haskell: this is one of my photos
[15:03] Eddi Haskell: we can meet in caledon sky steampunk city
[15:03] Eddi Haskell: thats cool
[15:03] Eddi Haskell: that is it
[15:03] Jago Constantine: I'll think about it ... maybe in caledon, or maybe insilico again
[15:03] Melch Savon: Insilico is a truly amazing place
[15:03] Jack Ozigard: the picture reminds me of early online porn: waiting ages untill you get to see something
[15:03] Melch Savon: But it's less blocky
[15:03] Melch Savon: Not even ASCII art
[15:04] Jack Ozigard: indeed melch
[15:04] Jago Constantine: the picture is changing too fast to see lol
[15:04] Jack Ozigard: it is a grey screen most of the time
[15:04] Purple Baum: I recognize that NCI place
[15:05] Jack Ozigard: from caledon yes
[15:05] Eddi Haskell: i interviewed the guvnah and the vicereigne this week for vr style
[15:05] Jago Constantine: Ok, I'm going to log and have breakfast
[15:05] Eddi Haskell: jago dont go yet
[15:05] Jago Constantine: ok
[15:05] Eddi Haskell: need to ask you
[15:05] Melch Savon: Ciao all -- it's been fun as always
[15:05] Jago Constantine: See you next week!
[15:05] Purple Baum: OK, cya everybody
[15:06] Eddi Haskell: hey guys
[15:06] Eddi Haskell: before you go
[15:06] Jago Constantine: thanks for joining the group, Purple
[15:06] Eddi Haskell: we have a cool museum here
[15:06] Purple Baum: ty
[15:06] Eddi Haskell: jago dont talk it up
[15:06] DonJuan Writer: cheers. got called away. see y'all
[15:06] Eddi Haskell: if yo uwant to see it
[15:06] Purple Baum: I'll check it out

20 June 2009: Liberation Square

[14:08] Jago Constantine: Hi, Emerald, welcome
[14:08] Emerald Learner: : ))
[14:08] Eddi Haskell: hi emerald
[14:08] Emerald Learner: hey there
[14:09] Jago Constantine: nice skates :)
[14:09] Emerald Learner: thx
[14:09] Jago Constantine: just a small group for sci fi discussion today it seems
[14:09] Emerald Learner: yep
[14:09] Eddi Haskell: its the summer already
[14:09] Jago Constantine: yeah?
[14:09] Eddi Haskell: well yes i think today or tomorrow / i think
[14:10] Jago Constantine: oh you mean summer vacation?
[14:10] Eddi Haskell: no summer / i am not sure if it is one time around the world
[14:10] Jago Constantine: I thought the season began on 1 June
[14:10] Eddi Haskell: it is midnight on june 20
[14:11] Eddi Haskell: no june 21 in the northern hemisphere
[14:11] Eddi Haskell: is the longest day of the year
[14:11] Eddi Haskell: and where you are
[14:11] Eddi Haskell: is the shortest day of the year in terms of sunlight
[14:11] Eddi Haskell: it probalby gets dark out at 5 pm where you are
[14:11] Eddi Haskell: so where you are from now on the days will get longer
[14:12] Eddi Haskell: but the closer you are to the equator
[14:12] Jago Constantine: I base seasons around the months, not the solstices :P
[14:12] Eddi Haskell: i do solstances lol
[14:12] Jago Constantine: Anyway have you read any science fiction this week eddi?
[14:12] Eddi Haskell: well
[14:12] Eddi Haskell: the closest I came
[14:12] Jago Constantine: You were in tennessee ... it might be illegal there :P / Oh we lost her
[14:12] Eddi Haskell: is a short story on what would have happened if the attomic bomb was not invented
[14:12] Jago Constantine: cool
[14:12] Eddi Haskell: well
[14:13] Jago Constantine: what would have happened?
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: this book says
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: the war would have gone on indefinately
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: for years
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: that operation olympic would have been moved up
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: there were two invactions planned
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: coront and olympic
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: the first one was of the sourthern island
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: the second one honshu in 46
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: massive american causalties
[14:14] Jago Constantine: wow
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: the russians would have invaded hokaido / the northern island
[14:14] Jago Constantine: hmm
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: and the americans would have done what they could
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: to hold honshu
[14:14] Jago Constantine: I read somewhere that the Japanese had already tried to surrender before the bombs were dropped
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: no / that is not ture
[14:14] Jago Constantine: But the allies wanted unconditional surrender
[14:14] Eddi Haskell: true
[14:15] Eddi Haskell: my freind
[14:15] Eddi Haskell: i can tell you
[14:15] Eddi Haskell: exaclty the opposite
[14:15] Eddi Haskell: it is not certain
[14:15] Eddi Haskell: if the japanese did surrendur uncondiationally
[14:15] Eddi Haskell: apparantly
[14:15] Eddi Haskell: macathur agreed to let them keep their emporer
[14:15] Eddi Haskell: and state religion
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: that was their demand
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: it was not negotiable
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: so
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: the deal was formed
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: after the bomb
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: you can keep that but you surrendur
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: it was the EMPORER and his supporters
[14:16] Eddi Haskell: that surrendured
[14:17] Eddi Haskell: there was enough of an infrasstucture in place
[14:17] Eddi Haskell: that when his voice was heard
[14:17] Eddi Haskell: the japanese stopped fighting
[14:17] Eddi Haskell: but
[14:17] Eddi Haskell: if he did not do that
[14:17] Eddi Haskell: and they were told to fight
[14:17] Eddi Haskell: the casualaties would have been MASSIVE
[14:17] Eddi Haskell: on both sides
[14:17] Eddi Haskell: this story
[14:17] Eddi Haskell: says there woujld not have been a surrendur
[14:18] Eddi Haskell: and they would have fought to the death
[14:18] Eddi Haskell: i have read something that is not science fiction in the past few weeks that should be
[14:18] Eddi Haskell: about phages
[14:18] Eddi Haskell: do you know what a phage is?
[14:18] Eddi Haskell: i think i want to write a story
[14:19] Eddi Haskell: you have heard of them?
[14:19] Jago Constantine: yes
[14:19] Eddi Haskell: in the us
[14:20] Eddi Haskell: with the very strict FDA
[14:20] Eddi Haskell: they have been approved as food additives
[14:20] Eddi Haskell: you can spray them on food to stop bacteria
[14:20] Eddi Haskell: but not on humans
[14:20] Eddi Haskell: how could something
[14:20] Eddi Haskell: so natural and basic
[14:20] Eddi Haskell: not be legal or used in the west
[14:21] Eddi Haskell: it got me to think
[14:21] Eddi Haskell: that so many of thse
[14:21] Eddi Haskell: old remedies
[14:21] Eddi Haskell: folklore
[14:21] Eddi Haskell: are based in science
[14:21] Jago Constantine: cool
[14:21] Eddi Haskell: also another historial revsion story / is this / in may 1940 / if halifax became prime minister / not churchill / the odds were stacked against churchill / the royal family did not want him to be prime minister for many reasons / the most basic is that he supported / the duke of windsor / during the abdication crises / halifax was in lords / not commonds / he was v ery high church / he was called the holy fox / well
[14:23] Jago Constantine: Ok, so if he became prime minister what would have happened?
[14:23] Eddi Haskell: stalin would have gotten the bomb is the primise
[14:23] Jago Constantine: Hey, Chornoi
[14:23] Eddi Haskell: well he would have cut a deal with hitler / one was offered
[14:23] Jago Constantine: Welcome to sci fi discussion :)
[14:23] Eddi Haskell: to end the war
[14:23] Chornoi Serpente: hi jago and eddi
[14:23] Eddi Haskell: hi chornoi how are you?
[14:23] Jago Constantine: small group today lol
[14:24] Eddi Haskell: makw sure to see our yard sale downstairs after the meeting LOL
[14:24] Jago Constantine: Eddi is talking about alternate history / he's a big fan of the genre
[14:24] Eddi Haskell: i have been reading about it / well there is a school of historiography that says / the same end results would have happened anyway
[14:25] Chornoi Serpente: any specific book?
[14:25] Eddi Haskell: if something changed / i have to go upstairs and get it / lol
[14:25] Jago Constantine: ok
[14:25] Eddi Haskell: ill look it up
[14:26] Jago Constantine: I think the chances of things staying similar diverge the more time passes from the starting point
[14:26] Chornoi Serpente: with apologies for bopping about i'm still getting used to moving about
[14:26] Jago Constantine: having trouble sitting, Chornoi? / No worries :)
[14:26] Eddi Haskell: are you new?
[14:27] Chornoi Serpente: well new to exploring or attending events - my sister runs a sim here and she tagged me and i'm slowly getting my feet wet?
[14:27] Jago Constantine: Great :) / try the chairs?
[14:28] Eddi Haskell: yeah just sit on them
[14:28] Jago Constantine: that looks fine :)
[14:28] Eddi Haskell: we are talking this thing down soon
[14:28] Jago Constantine: if you have trouble with the pose, turn off your animation override if you have one
[14:28] Eddi Haskell: our outer space island
[14:28] Jago Constantine: so what's the book, eddi?
[14:29] Eddi Haskell: what if? / ill get it
[14:29] Chornoi Serpente: i like outer space !! I've visited Cosmique by Thoth Jantzen
[14:29] Jago Constantine: ok
[14:29] Eddi Haskell: i have to go upstairs lol
[14:29] Jago Constantine: Oh I haven't been there
[14:29] Eddi Haskell: ill be back in a bit
[14:29] Jago Constantine: I might check it out
[14:30] Jago Constantine: This week I read 'The Listeners' by James Gunn
[14:30] Jago Constantine: It's about SETI
[14:30] Jago Constantine: It's very interesting ... it reminded me a lot of 'Contact' by Carl Sagan
[14:31] Jago Constantine: which was written later
[14:31] Jago Constantine: Either Sagan was influenced by Gunn, or there aren't that many storylines about SETI :P
[14:31] Chornoi Serpente: I have read that - and seen the sorry movie
[14:31] Jago Constantine: heh I didn't mind the movie, but it was from before I read the book / so I agreed with South Park, where someone said 'I watched for two hours and the alien was her freaking father!?!'
[14:32] Eddi Haskell: back
[14:32] Jago Constantine: welcome back :)
[14:32] Chornoi Serpente: LOL wb
[14:33] Eddi Haskell: the book is very prosaicallty called What If 2 / by Putnam
[14:33] Jago Constantine: heh so there was a What If 1, obviously
[14:33] Eddi Haskell: yes / i guess you would call it essays and not stories but they read like stories
[14:34] Jago Constantine: the first, very famous, book of alternate history was written in the early part of the 1900s
[14:34] Eddi Haskell: i am up to what is pizarro had not found potatoes in peru / what was it called
[14:34] Jago Constantine: I think it was called 'What if it had occurred otherwise?' or something like that / If it had happened otherwise, 1931
[14:34] Chornoi Serpente: just amazoned what if? they have a whole series of books - ty excellent
[14:35] Jago Constantine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_It_Had_Happened_Otherwise
[14:35] Chornoi Serpente: both by robert cowley?
[14:36] Eddi Haskell: this is the most significant
[14:36] Eddi Haskell: *

* If the Emperor Frederick had not had Cancer by Emil Ludwig: German Emperor Frederick III survives, and with his wife, Princess Victoria, rules a liberal humanist Germany where their son never succumbs to militarism, due to the long-term benign effects of this scenario. Therefore, World War I never happens in this world.
[14:36] Jago Constantine: that is interesting
[14:36] Jago Constantine: I just listened to a podcast a while ago where hitler had had a kind childhood
[14:37] Eddi Haskell: world war 1 would not have happened, and world war 2 would not have
[14:37] Jago Constantine: and grew up to be a great humanitarian
[14:37] Eddi Haskell: but
[14:37] Eddi Haskell: i am not sure if one individual can fight a long term tide
[14:38] Eddi Haskell: but you have tons of these
[14:38] Eddi Haskell: what if lenin would have lived
[14:38] Eddi Haskell: on and on
[14:38] Chornoi Serpente: eddi there have been numerous occasions in history where one man turns the tide
[14:38] Eddi Haskell: i just came back from sciene fiction . i sent a week in chatagnooga
[14:39] Eddi Haskell: well yes
[14:39] Eddi Haskell: when one man makes a difference but
[14:39] Eddi Haskell: there is a view of history that it is all inevitable
[14:39] Jago Constantine: Oh here is the story online
[14:39] Jago Constantine: http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/scholes_11_07/
[14:39] Jago Constantine: hitler, hemingway and chaplin meet in a bar in paris
[14:40] Eddi Haskell: ill make sure to read it
[14:40] Jago Constantine: maybe I will send it out to the group to read for next week
[14:40] Eddi Haskell: many people for example write books like what if lee won gettysburg
[14:40] Jago Constantine: yeah
[14:41] Eddi Haskell: but that is not how it worked
[14:41] Eddi Haskell: and the south won the war
[14:41] Eddi Haskell: the north had way too much industrial power
[14:41] Eddi Haskell: however on stroy in this book is
[14:41] Eddi Haskell: what is lincoln had not freed the slaves
[14:41] Eddi Haskell: the north might have given up
[14:41] Eddi Haskell: the us civil war actually was the first modern was
[14:41] Eddi Haskell: concentration camps
[14:42] Eddi Haskell: submarines
[14:42] Jago Constantine: a classic alt history is Bring the Jubilee by Ward Moore
[14:42] Eddi Haskell: machine guns
[14:42] Eddi Haskell: what is that about
[14:42] Jago Constantine: the confederacy won the war
[14:42] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:42] Eddi Haskell: oh there are alot of those
[14:42] Eddi Haskell: lol
[14:42] Eddi Haskell: i just got a vd
[14:42] Eddi Haskell: dvd
[14:42] Jago Constantine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bring_the_Jubilee
[14:42] Eddi Haskell: the confederate states of american lol
[14:43] Chornoi Serpente: i agree that the technologies would have developed - perhaps at a slower rate
[14:43] Chornoi Serpente: as the wars really pushed that into overdrive
[14:43] Jago Constantine: yeah, that seems like a pretty clear conclusion about technology
[14:44] Eddi Haskell: well the other great modern war was the franco prussian war
[14:44] Jago Constantine: wars drive it
[14:44] Eddi Haskell: another story in this book is what if the ems telegram was never sent
[14:44] Chornoi Serpente: however, human nature being what is is, someone's war somewhere would have driven those technologies
[14:45] Eddi Haskell: hi jack
[14:45] Chornoi Serpente: hi jack
[14:45] Jack Ozigard: hi
[14:45] Eddi Haskell: take a seat!
[14:46] Jago Constantine: hey jack
[14:46] Jago Constantine: we're discussing alternate histories
[14:46] Jack Ozigard: okay. that's a difficult one
[14:47] Eddi Haskell: yes
[14:47] Jago Constantine: I wonder if people aren't so interested in histories that diverge too far back
[14:47] Eddi Haskell: like what
[14:47] Jack Ozigard: if a writer doesn't make it alternate enough, he will be accused of bad research
[14:47] Jago Constantine: however I have seen some interesting roman empire never fell stories
[14:48] Eddi Haskell: or never moved east to byzantium
[14:49] Eddi Haskell: ill tell ya this has nothing to do with anything but i have never seen a building make my mouth drop more than hagia sophia
[14:49] Jack Ozigard: I don't know any alternate histories that go back as far as the roman empire
[14:49] Jago Constantine: well it's to do with byzantium :P
[14:49] Eddi Haskell: yes they are in this book
[14:49] Jago Constantine: Ok the one I'm thinking of is called Procurator I think
[14:49] Eddi Haskell: what if socrates did not die is in this book
[14:49] Chornoi Serpente: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiction_set_in_the_Roman_empire
[14:50] Jago Constantine: the roman empire is maybe at the 1900 level of technology
[14:50] Eddi Haskell: interesting
[14:50] Jack Ozigard: sandalpunk :)
[14:50] Eddi Haskell: lol
[14:50] Eddi Haskell: that could be something
[14:50] Jago Constantine: yeah its on that list - the germanicus trilogy by kirk mitchell
[14:51] Jago Constantine: I read that book Romanitas, too and was very disappointed
[14:51] Eddi Haskell: somany whats and ifs
[14:51] Jago Constantine: From memory, it wasn't very Roman at all
[14:51] Jago Constantine: I mean, it could have been almost any modern setting
[14:52] Jago Constantine: and, heh, every good alt history should tell you the divergence point, which this didn't
[14:52] Eddi Haskell: sometimes i feel that everything is part of a plan anyway
[14:52] Jago Constantine: other than 'the roman empire never fell'
[14:52] Jago Constantine: it was probably something to do with christianity
[14:52] Chornoi Serpente: eddi r u saying that you think a person's destiny is set?
[14:53] Jago Constantine: that's the divergence for the germanicus trilogy - pontius pilate frees Christ
[14:53] Eddi Haskell: i dont know
[14:53] Eddi Haskell: no
[14:53] Eddi Haskell: well there is a story in this book what if Christ were not crucified
[14:53] Eddi Haskell: and lived to 90\
[14:53] Jago Constantine: oh, what would have happened?
[14:53] Eddi Haskell: one religion wold have emerged
[14:53] Eddi Haskell: judaio christianity
[14:53] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:54] Eddi Haskell: open to all
[14:54] Eddi Haskell: jews and christians would have the same religion
[14:54] Jago Constantine: I read something like that
[14:54] Eddi Haskell: it woujld have taken over the roman emprie and made it stronger
[14:54] Eddi Haskell: jesus would have been seen as the ultimate prophet
[14:54] Jago Constantine: it was kind of catholic ... the pope lives in jerusalem in the temple
[14:54] Eddi Haskell: brining in the new covenant
[14:54] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:54] Eddi Haskell: this is the opposite
[14:54] Eddi Haskell: the temple would have moved to rome
[14:54] Eddi Haskell: where st. peters is
[14:54] Chornoi Serpente: what about when mohammed came along?
[14:55] Eddi Haskell: he came in 700
[14:55] Eddi Haskell: the end result is
[14:55] Eddi Haskell: but according to this book
[14:55] Eddi Haskell: he never would have stood a chance
[14:55] Jago Constantine: ah well, what are the odds that he would come along?
[14:55] Eddi Haskell: christiainity was very established int he east
[14:55] Chornoi Serpente: why not?
[14:55] Jago Constantine: after 700 years
[14:55] Eddi Haskell: well here is the gist
[14:55] Eddi Haskell: of the story
[14:55] Eddi Haskell: the religion that emerges
[14:55] Jago Constantine: well ... think of all the changes that would have occurred
[14:55] Eddi Haskell: is remarkably similar to catholicism
[14:56] Eddi Haskell: with a few differences
[14:56] Chornoi Serpente: and why would the temple have moved to rome?
[14:56] Jago Constantine: someone like him might have come along if conditions had been the same
[14:56] Eddi Haskell: cause constantinoples mother had a dream that said he could move it
[14:56] Eddi Haskell: lol
[14:56] Chornoi Serpente: surely if jesus had lived until 90 - his tomb would take precedence over peters
[14:56] Jago Constantine: good point
[14:56] Eddi Haskell: i ghink they move his remains to rome
[14:56] Jago Constantine: hmm
[14:56] Eddi Haskell: why cant they move it?
[14:57] Eddi Haskell: the moved joseph out of egypt
[14:57] Eddi Haskell: but this story is what i was speaking of
[14:57] Eddi Haskell: the end result is remarkably the same
[14:57] Jago Constantine: if there was no conflict with the jews, then the christians would have stayed centered in jerusalem
[14:57] Jago Constantine: although having said that, rome was preeminent
[14:57] Eddi Haskell: jerusalem was drstoryed in ad 69
[14:57] Eddi Haskell: the jews were taken as slaves aroudn the world
[14:57] Jago Constantine: ok
[14:58] Eddi Haskell: the half that lived
[14:58] Eddi Haskell: the rest were killed by the romans
[14:58] Jago Constantine: Mary Gentle's novel, Ash, is set in a world where Christ was born in Rome to the empress
[14:58] Jago Constantine: Christianity is more like mithraism I think
[14:58] Jago Constantine: I don't know too much about it tho
[14:59] Chornoi Serpente: hmm also why would the jews have converted to jesus' type of judao christianity
[14:59] Eddi Haskell: well
[14:59] Eddi Haskell: jews were starting to comoe to terms with it
[14:59] Chornoi Serpente: in his teachings it's his sacrifice that allows christians into heaven
[14:59] Jago Constantine: well, why not? he evidently had some sympathisers
[15:00] Jago Constantine: true
[15:00] Eddi Haskell: well jews back then did not have a concept of an afterlife per say
[15:00] Eddi Haskell: there is still no postion on it
[15:01] Eddi Haskell: christianity as we know it really firmed up as a separate relition in the 300 years afterwards
[15:01] Jago Constantine: there is a group invite for you both
[15:01] Jago Constantine: we meet each week at the same time
[15:01] Chornoi Serpente: ty
[15:01] Eddi Haskell: there was many chsitian sects
[15:01] Eddi Haskell: some did not give jesus a divine role
[15:01] Eddi Haskell: there were many beleifts
[15:02] Eddi Haskell: in the several hundred years after
[15:02] Jago Constantine: well, there was a lot of variation about exactly how he was diving
[15:02] Eddi Haskell: things were put in place
[15:02] Jago Constantine: divine lol
[15:02] Jago Constantine: not diving
[15:02] Jack Ozigard: lol
[15:02] Eddi Haskell: some christians thought he was just the messiah
[15:02] Eddi Haskell: but human form
[15:02] Jack Ozigard: no some jews did
[15:02] Eddi Haskell: thats just it
[15:03] Eddi Haskell: it was not a sepepate religion until well afterwards
[15:03] Eddi Haskell: there are gospels that are not part of the new testament
[15:03] Eddi Haskell: discovered in egypt at the turn of the century
[15:04] Eddi Haskell: the gospels of philip, mary, james
[15:04] Jago Constantine: I read somewhere that the jewish bible wasn't finalised til after the foundation of christianity
[15:04] Jack Ozigard: there isn't a lot of fiction set in the ncient history, is there? Let alone alternate history.
[15:04] Jago Constantine: and the closed it to exclude the new testament
[15:04] Eddi Haskell: well the old testament was set well before christ
[15:04] Eddi Haskell: in fact there are books in the catholic old testament
[15:04] Chornoi Serpente: yes but his message would not have been so strong if he hadn't of died
[15:04] Eddi Haskell: that the jews dropped
[15:04] Eddi Haskell: well that is just it
[15:05] Eddi Haskell: the crucifixtion was such a strong central event
[15:05] Jack Ozigard: the bible got it's form, afaik, after the fall of the roman empire
[15:05] Eddi Haskell: that is solidified beleif in a new relition
[15:05] Eddi Haskell: there was an arguement that the four current gospels were actually writting about 150 -200
[15:06] Eddi Haskell: there is somethign called the jesus movement
[15:06] Eddi Haskell: interfaith
[15:06] Chornoi Serpente: my tendered suggesion was that jesus would have been treated as a prophet by judaism and therefore
[15:06] Eddi Haskell: they have combed through the gospels to try to come up with the original teachings of jesus
[15:06] Jack Ozigard: would you consider Da Vinci Code an alternate history as well?
[15:07] Chornoi Serpente: when mohammed arose as islam's prophet
[15:07] Jago Constantine: good question jack
[15:07] Jago Constantine: its more of a secret history
[15:07] Eddi Haskell: i dont beleive much of it
[15:07] Jago Constantine: http://www.uchronia.net/bib.cgi/diverge.html
[15:07] Jago Constantine: here is a list of alt histories in order of divergence!
[15:08] Jack Ozigard: yes, but based on the "fact" that some things are not as they are told in the bible and by ancient christians
[15:08] Eddi Haskell: im reading a work right now on St. Augustine
[15:08] Eddi Haskell: its huge
[15:08] Chornoi Serpente: hmm i don't agree with secret history - i would say alternate
[15:08] Eddi Haskell: what a great man
[15:09] Jago Constantine: sure, but because history wasn't changed by the secrets revealed in DVC
[15:09] Jago Constantine: it's not really alternate
[15:09] Jago Constantine: unless we're living in the alternate timeline
[15:09] Eddi Haskell: in my view i think we may be missing the point
[15:09] Chornoi Serpente: ah agreed jago - apologies overlooked that!
[15:10] Eddi Haskell: what is so important throughout history are not individual facts
[15:10] Eddi Haskell: but changes in the way we think
[15:10] Eddi Haskell: and how we think
[15:10] Eddi Haskell: not people, specific religions or facts
[15:10] Chornoi Serpente: hmm so perceived history and our understanding of it?
[15:10] Eddi Haskell: yes
[15:10] Eddi Haskell: how we relate to information
[15:10] Eddi Haskell: one of the most powerful ways to view the old and new testaments
[15:11] Eddi Haskell: are as literature
[15:11] Chornoi Serpente: like fables?
[15:11] Eddi Haskell: western civilization is ultiamatley based not on facts
[15:11] Eddi Haskell: but on how two mediteranean people thought
[15:11] Eddi Haskell: jews and greeks
[15:11] Eddi Haskell: i think now for example
[15:11] Eddi Haskell: in the united states, hence , the western worold
[15:12] Eddi Haskell: a mind shift is occuring
[15:12] Eddi Haskell: we are moving away from unabashed capitalism
[15:12] Eddi Haskell: it is a sea change
[15:12] Chornoi Serpente: ooh and also add and it's struggle against he "eastern" civiisation's ideas?
[15:12] Eddi Haskell: well
[15:13] Eddi Haskell: i think that many westerners are more respectful of eastern ideas
[15:13] Eddi Haskell: i think in the US people are becoming less materialistic
[15:13] Eddi Haskell: it is how we think
[15:13] Chornoi Serpente: agreed - countries are beginning to plan long-term
[15:14] Eddi Haskell: these two mediteranean peoples
[15:14] Eddi Haskell: go back to what i said
[15:14] Eddi Haskell: and im talking before rome
[15:14] Jack Ozigard: I doubt it, but I don't know about the USA
[15:14] Chornoi Serpente: but isn't that just a symptom of how young the USA is in contrast
[15:14] Eddi Haskell: jews and greeks were the greatest influence on western civilization.l Do you know why?
[15:14] Chornoi Serpente: and i'm not running that down
[15:14] Eddi Haskell: historians feel the reason is that they were the first two groups in which large numbers of the population were literate
[15:15] Eddi Haskell: now how does that influence today
[15:15] Chornoi Serpente: never thought of it that way
[15:15] Eddi Haskell: the trick about this era is the managment of metadata
[15:15] Eddi Haskell: or meta anything
[15:15] Eddi Haskell: meta meaning information about
[15:15] Eddi Haskell: that is why google rules
[15:16] Jack Ozigard: I couldn't tell if they were the largest influence. I see a lot of other important influences as well in modern Europe
[15:16] Eddi Haskell: it is all a bout metadata in search
[15:16] Eddi Haskell: im taling about the years around 1000 - 500 bc
[15:16] Jack Ozigard goes back to the uchronia list
[15:16] Eddi Haskell: one thing i thik is funny
[15:17] Eddi Haskell: is mirrored in an older work in bablyon
[15:17] Eddi Haskell: is the entire creation story in genesis
[15:17] Eddi Haskell: the creation mith of sargon
[15:17] Eddi Haskell: you said the same thing about mithris
[15:17] Eddi Haskell: the people back then had the same myths
[15:17] Eddi Haskell: rooted in prehistory
[15:17] Eddi Haskell: but
[15:17] Eddi Haskell: it is the application of forms of literature which make them powerful
[15:18] Chornoi Serpente: aaah but isn't that why christianity did actually spread so quickly
[15:18] Eddi Haskell: many pagans back then
[15:18] Eddi Haskell: or non jews
[15:18] Eddi Haskell: and back then jews were 10 -15% of the roman empire
[15:18] Chornoi Serpente: it latched onto the indiginous local religions and incorporated the rituals into it
[15:18] Eddi Haskell: in the jewish God
[15:18] Eddi Haskell: BUT
[15:18] Chornoi Serpente: it made the religion feel familiar
[15:19] Eddi Haskell: they cuold not become jews unless they were circumcized
[15:19] Eddi Haskell: unless they followed all this commandments
[15:19] Eddi Haskell: who wanted to bother?
[15:19] Eddi Haskell: they were allowed to pray as gentiles
[15:19] Chornoi Serpente: yes but the christians god was more inclusive that the jewish god
[15:19] Eddi Haskell: the power of christiianity
[15:19] Eddi Haskell: is that you did not have to do any of this
[15:19] Eddi Haskell: in order to be members of the new covenant
[15:19] Eddi Haskell: you just joined
[15:19] Eddi Haskell: to become a jew was and is a total pain in the ass
[15:20] Chornoi Serpente: lol you gotta want it bad!
[15:20] Jack Ozigard: ah, but you can't become a jew unless you are one
[15:20] Eddi Haskell: lord
[15:20] Eddi Haskell: no that is totally incorect
[15:20] Jack Ozigard: or better: if your mother is one
[15:20] Eddi Haskell: you can convert
[15:20] Eddi Haskell: no
[15:20] Eddi Haskell: you can convert
[15:20] Jack Ozigard: yes, but that's very difficult
[15:20] Eddi Haskell: you always have been able to
[15:20] Eddi Haskell: very
[15:20] Eddi Haskell: and they reject you three times
[15:20] Eddi Haskell: and they dont see the point of it
[15:21] Eddi Haskell: judaism was never meant to take over the world
[15:21] Jack Ozigard: and I think the christian promiss of heaven is a good way to attrackt people in bad times
[15:21] Eddi Haskell: lol
[15:21] Jago Constantine: Ok, I have to log now and have breakfast
[15:21] Eddi Haskell: i kinda thik the roman orgies woulda been more fun
[15:21] Jago Constantine: Thanks for coming Chornoi and Jack :)
[15:21] Eddi Haskell: jago
[15:22] Eddi Haskell: guys if you want to buy stuff look downstairs
[15:22] Eddi Haskell: we are having a huge yard sale
[15:22] Chornoi Serpente: ty it was nice o meet you all
[15:22] Jago Constantine: Next week will be in a different location
[15:22] Jack Ozigard: thank you organising, I'll try to be more on time next time
[15:22] Eddi Haskell: if you want a landmark i have one
[15:22] Jago Constantine: I'll send out a LM beforehand and put it in search
[15:22] Jago Constantine: an LM for downstairs, eddi means :P
[15:22] Chornoi Serpente: i'll be msiing next week RL appointment but hopefully c u in the week after
[15:22] Jago Constantine: great :)

13 June 2009: Liberation Square

[13:30] Jago Constantine: Hi, Athena
[13:30] Athena Maeterlinck: hello
[13:31] Jago Constantine: cool avatar!
[13:31] Athena Maeterlinck: Thanks
[13:31] Jago Constantine: Are you here for the science fiction discussion?
[13:31] Athena Maeterlinck: Aye a little early I know
[13:32] Jago Constantine: it's upstairs at 2pm :)
[13:33] Athena Maeterlinck: Great rocketship
[13:33] Jago Constantine: yeah it's fun :) / Would you like an invitation for our group?
[13:34] Athena Maeterlinck: No room in groups I'm afraid
[13:35] Jago Constantine: Ok, well we have meetings each week same time and are in search
[13:35] Jago Constantine: Hi, Zobeid!
[13:35] Zobeid Zuma: hello
[13:36] Athena Maeterlinck: Hello Zobeid
[13:36] Jago Constantine: It's a little early yet, so I'm doing some things in IM :P
[13:36] Zobeid Zuma: okay
[13:39] Jago Constantine: lol athena
[13:39] Zobeid Zuma: SL locked up. . . again / It has been doing that often.
[13:39] Jago Constantine: it seems better for me the last few months
[13:39] Zobeid Zuma: BRB. . .
[13:39] Jago Constantine: ok
[13:42] Jago Constantine: Sorry if the chairs don't work for you, Athena :P
[13:42] Athena Maeterlinck: Meh its pretty normal with atiny av
[13:43] Jago Constantine: It's a cool skybox :)
[13:44] Athena Maeterlinck: Apparently so
[13:44] Zobeid Zuma: now that's better. . . I hope :/
[13:44] Jago Constantine: WB Zobeid, nice outfit :)
[13:45] Zobeid Zuma: thankee!
[13:45] Athena Maeterlinck: What was wrong before?
[13:46] Zobeid Zuma: oh, nothing important. . . / let's hope trying to sit down doesn't crash me again. . .
[13:46] Jago Constantine: hehe
[13:46] Zobeid Zuma: I think it works this time. :)
[13:47] Jago Constantine: Would you like a group invite, Zobeid?
[13:47] Zobeid Zuma: What group?
[13:47] Jago Constantine: Science Fiction Discussion :)
[13:47] Zobeid Zuma: sure why not?
[13:48] Jago Constantine: Hi, Arii!
[13:48] Arii Arida: hello :))
[13:48] Jago Constantine: I like the key :)
[13:49] Arii Arida: thanks...it's kookey..and has no particular use,lol
[13:49] Jago Constantine: ok so it won't wind down at all :P
[13:49] Arii Arida: ya..it will....but nothing happens
[13:49] Jago Constantine: hehe / try sitting on that athena
[13:50] Arii Arida: whats the athena?
[13:50] Arii Arida: ahhhhhh
[13:50] Jago Constantine: i meant the pose ball
[13:50] Athena Maeterlinck: oh
[13:50] Jago Constantine: the one near the book on the ground
[13:51] Arii Arida: I think for tinies...it wont work
[13:51] Jago Constantine: not the book itself, the ball is above it / its kind of transparent
[13:52] Athena Maeterlinck: Well pobably not if it mattered I'd just switch avvies
[13:52] Jago Constantine: heh oh well
[13:52] Arii Arida: love the rotating globe
[13:53] Jago Constantine: thanks it's a star emitter :P
[13:53] Arii Arida: I'm pulling my cam back.......Very nice
[13:53] Jago Constantine: wow athena!
[13:54] Arii Arida: we dont have a planatarium where I live...would br lovely if we did
[13:55] Jago Constantine: they're wonderful things :) / brb making a cup of tea
[13:57] Eddi Haskell: hai
[13:57] Zobeid Zuma: howdy
[13:57] Arii Arida: sorry....I changed the channel...me and my button pressing...lolz
[13:58] Athena Maeterlinck: Heelo there
[13:58] Eddi Haskell: im in chatanooga tenessee now. this place is science fiction
[13:58] Eddi Haskell: i cant beleive how slow everyone is.
[13:59] Eddi Haskell: jago will tell me to be nice in an im soon
[13:59] Arii Arida: be genuin.....
[13:59] Eddi Haskell: lol
[13:59] Athena Maeterlinck: Slow
[13:59] Athena Maeterlinck: ?
[13:59] Eddi Haskell: well they take their time doing things
[13:59] Eddi Haskell: this is the deep south in the US, im visiting here
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: i love sl . this to me is reality. the situation outside is what is strange.
[14:00] Jago Constantine: ok i'm back :) / welcome avex
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: good you dont have to see what I said
[14:00] Jago Constantine: hey eddi babe
[14:00] Arii Arida: well...I find here..paople are really free to be themselves..........
[14:00] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: hey jago
[14:00] Eddi Haskell: yes
[14:01] Athena Maeterlinck: Nah this place is warped
[14:01] Arii Arida: freaky and deaky
[14:01] Eddi Haskell: well so am I / so it works
[14:01] Athena Maeterlinck: Were all completely nuts
[14:01] Eddi Haskell: i am for sure
[14:01] Arii Arida: to a degree yes...
[14:01] Arii Arida: some more than others
[14:01] Jago Constantine: ok i think it's time to start :)
[14:02] Jago Constantine: basically, we go round the group and talk about the last book we each read
[14:02] Arii Arida: cool
[14:03] Jago Constantine: I've been away for a few weeks so I read a few
[14:03] Jago Constantine: The best one was Little Brother, by Cory Doctorow
[14:03] Arii Arida: why did you like it?
[14:03] Jago Constantine: it's very topical / about the surveilance society we're creating / how it can be used by the authorities to take away our freedoms
[14:04] Arii Arida: scary
[14:04] Jago Constantine: and how it can be subverted and fought by the community
[14:04] Jago Constantine: basically it's about a kid in san francisco
[14:04] Jago Constantine: he's a hacker but not a bad guy
[14:05] Jago Constantine: so there's a terrorist attack in the city and he's arrested for being on the street
[14:05] Jago Constantine: sort of arbitrarily ... he's eventually released, but the experience makes him notice
[14:06] Jago Constantine: how people are willingly surrendering freedoms for security
[14:06] Jago Constantine: the title obviously is a reference to Big Brother from 1984
[14:06] Arii Arida: I think in this society.....people born into it....they dont notice as much
[14:07] Jago Constantine: I often read about how the UK is the most videod society in the world / hey melch, good to see you again
[14:07] Melch Savon: Afternoon all
[14:07] Melch Savon: Yeah -- been on vacation, no SL
[14:07] Arii Arida: Hi Melch :)
[14:07] Jago Constantine: I'm just talking about Cory Doctorow's Little Brother
[14:07] Eddi Haskell: hi melch!
[14:07] Jago Constantine: I really liked it
[14:08] Melch Savon: Really!
[14:08] Jago Constantine: yes :P
[14:08] Jago Constantine: Doctorow is the guy behind the site Boing Boing
[14:08] Jago Constantine: he's also a technolibertarian if that's the right word
[14:08] Melch Savon: Also, I believe, a native of my fair city :)
[14:08] Jago Constantine: he worked for the electronic frontier foundation / Which gets a plug in the book :)
[14:09] Zobeid Zuma: That reminds me, I need to join EFF.
[14:09] Melch Savon: The idea is an encrypted sub-section of the net used to organize against a police state, right?
[14:09] Jago Constantine: That reminds me, I bet the book is available online for free, knowing Doctorow
[14:09] Zobeid Zuma: Arisia, hii! :)
[14:09] Jago Constantine: http://craphound.com/littlebrother/download/
[14:09] Jago Constantine: there it is lol
[14:09] Melch Savon: I do read his blog occasionally
[14:09] Jago Constantine: I bought it :P / Hi, Arisia :)
[14:10] Arisia Vita: Hi everyone
[14:10] Melch Savon: Hey Arisia
[14:10] Eddi Haskell: hi arisia
[14:10] Eddi Haskell: does eveyrone have sound?
[14:10] Arii Arida: Hi Arisia :)
[14:10] Arii Arida: yup
[14:10] Jago Constantine: Yes melch, that's the idea
[14:10] Melch Savon: Yes - starting now
[14:11] Zobeid Zuma: starting what?
[14:11] Jago Constantine: the protagonist uses a sort of free internet to fight the government
[14:11] Melch Savon: Sound. Does Doctorow explain why the net is not just shut off to encrypted packets?
[14:11] Jago Constantine: Why do you ask, Eddi?
[14:11] Eddi Haskell: i dont have sound
[14:11] Jago Constantine: I forget :P / I can hear the birds, I think the music is off
[14:12] Melch Savon: It always bothered me about that kind of plot.
[14:12] Eddi Haskell: ok ill put it on
[14:12] Jago Constantine: I turned it off lol
[14:12] Eddi Haskell: ok
[14:13] Jago Constantine: Eddi did you read any sci fi lately?
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: no but ive taken about 100 steampunk photos all over sl
[14:13] Jago Constantine: hehe cool
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: the next issue of VR Style is the steampunk issue
[14:13] Jago Constantine: There's so many nice steampunk builds in SL
[14:13] Eddi Haskell: yeah
[14:14] Jago Constantine: Ok then, Arii ... what did you read last?
[14:14] Arii Arida: well
[14:14] Arisia Vita: currently reading Singularity Sky
[14:14] Jago Constantine: Cool / Charles Stross
[14:14] Arii Arida: dont judge me but
[14:14] Arisia Vita: yes
[14:14] Arii Arida: I dont like romance and I dont like Vampire reads....but I got sucked into reading twilight,lol
[14:14] Jago Constantine: Sorry Arisia, I meanr Arii across from you :)
[14:15] Arisia Vita: oh, I loved Twilight
[14:15] Jago Constantine: hehe
[14:15] Arisia Vita: just finished the fourth book
[14:15] Jago Constantine: I haven't seen the movie or read the book yet
[14:15] Arii Arida: all my little neices and gorlfriends kept bugging me ...so I caved
[14:15] Arisia Vita: I liked Host too
[14:15] Jago Constantine: so what's it like? I imagine like buffy :P
[14:15] Arisia Vita: sort of a Beauty and the Beast story
[14:15] Arii Arida: it's basically a romance...with good vampires.lol
[14:16] Jago Constantine: I keep seeing people making jokes about the vampires being shiny
[14:16] Arii Arida: they did it well. though...made me fall in love with Edward the main character...
[14:16] Jago Constantine: what;s that about?
[14:16] Arii Arida: I wont go to the movie...so I don't know / but their skin sort of shines in the sun / like diamonds
[14:17] Jago Constantine: heh ok / so the sun doesn't kill them
[14:17] Arii Arida: no
[14:18] Jago Constantine: have you read anne rice's vampire books?
[14:18] Arii Arida: no....vampires..I just can't get into it
[14:18] Jago Constantine: that's the only vampire series I read really
[14:18] Arii Arida: perhaps I should try one
[14:18] Jago Constantine: actually there was one schlock horror series called Necroscope with some very weird vampires
[14:19] Arii Arida: what was weird about them?
[14:19] Zobeid Zuma: I've never seen the point of vampires. . . never understood why other people find them interesting, really.
[14:19] Jago Constantine: oh well they're from another planet and they're shapeshifters kind of
[14:19] Zobeid Zuma: Except for Count Orlock of course. He was really creepy!
[14:19] Jago Constantine: it's very lurid writing
[14:19] Jago Constantine: but it was interesting because the main character can speak to the dead (necroscope)
[14:20] Arii Arida: ohhhhhhh
[14:20] Jago Constantine: Brian Lumley was the author
[14:21] Jago Constantine: A friend who loves twilight asked me for a recommendation and I pointed her to anne rice
[14:21] Jago Constantine: Hi, Mike!
[14:21] Arisia Vita: Hi Mike
[14:22] Melch Savon waves at Mike
[14:22] Arii Arida: I need to go..so sorry....this has been pleasant :)
[14:22] Jago Constantine: Ok, so Arisia ... how was Singularity Sky
[14:22] Arisia Vita: Bye Arii
[14:22] Jago Constantine: thanks for coming Arii
[14:22] Melch Savon: Bye Arii
[14:22] Jago Constantine: See you next week maybe :)
[14:22] Arisia Vita: it's great so far, just about 1/4 through
[14:23] Jago Constantine: I sent you a group invite did you get it?
[14:23] Eddi Haskell: bye Ari
[14:23] Jago Constantine: It wasn't my favourite stross novel
[14:23] Jago Constantine: but he fills it with a lot of cool ideas
[14:23] Arisia Vita: it's hard to write stories which occur after the singularity
[14:23] Jago Constantine: yeah, by definition it's almost not predictable :P
[14:23] Arisia Vita: right
[14:24] Mike111 Ewing: hello
[14:24] Jago Constantine: Hey mike welcome
[14:24] Jago Constantine: The way the meeting works is we go around and talk about what we read during the week
[14:25] Jago Constantine: it's like alcoholics anonymous for sci fi :P
[14:25] Jago Constantine: I only have a vague notion of how AA works lol
[14:25] Eddi Haskell: you have to admit you have a problem
[14:25] Eddi Haskell: and ask for help from a superior force
[14:25] Eddi Haskell: then you go to weekly meetings and become obnoxious
[14:25] Jago Constantine: ok well this is not like AA then :P
[14:26] Melch Savon: Hi, I'm Melch, and I don't have enough time to read all the good sci-fi out there
[14:26] Jago Constantine: except for going round the group :P
[14:26] Jago Constantine: Hi, Melch!
[14:26] Eddi Haskell: i went to a meeting of sarcastics anonymous once.
[14:26] Jago Constantine: :)
[14:26] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:26] Jago Constantine: So Zobeid, have you read anything good lately?
[14:27] Jago Constantine: heh
[14:27] Jago Constantine: ok Melch how about you?
[14:27] Zobeid Zuma: er?
[14:27] Jago Constantine: oh ok zz
[14:27] Jago Constantine: I thought you might be afk
[14:27] Zobeid Zuma: I read something old. . .
[14:28] Zobeid Zuma: A Barnstormer in Oz, by Phillip Jose Farmer!
[14:28] Jago Constantine: Wow, I remember that
[14:28] Melch Savon: Oh, what was that about? It sounds cool
[14:28] Jago Constantine: I got it from a 2nd hand store
[14:29] Zobeid Zuma: It's like a SF novel derived -- loosely -- from A Wonderful World of Oz.
[14:29] Jago Constantine: yeah it's kind of like a connecticut yankee in king arthur's court ... but in oz, right?
[14:30] Zobeid Zuma: The conceit is that Baum wrote his original book (the first one, not any of the sequels) based on an interview with the *real* Dorothy, who had inadvertently visited a parallel world.
[14:30] Melch Savon: Now that is an good premise
[14:30] Zobeid Zuma: And in this book, her son accidentally flies his biplane back to Oz and finds out the True Story of it all.
[14:30] Jago Constantine: yeah it's fun
[14:31] Jago Constantine: farmer writes a more adult style than baum :P
[14:31] Zobeid Zuma: But it's not a kid's story, and it's not fantasy. It's framed as real SF.
[14:31] Zobeid Zuma: Which means Farmer had to really stretch to come up with rational explanations for things.
[14:31] Jago Constantine: hehe
[14:32] Jago Constantine: it reminds me of tad williams' Otherland series
[14:32] Jago Constantine: in one of them the characters visit a version of Oz
[14:32] Zobeid Zuma: Something Farmer was well qualified to do, since he's written some really far-out SF. . .
[14:32] Jago Constantine: where the emerald city is a totalitarian state
[14:32] Zobeid Zuma: I kind of like the surreal, sort of trippy SF that came out of the 1970s. This I think is from 1983, but it really is that sort of style anyhow.
[14:33] Jago Constantine: yeah farmer is a pretty 70s author in his style
[14:33] Jago Constantine: You should read Mick Farren's DNA Cowboys series
[14:33] Zobeid Zuma: He's famous for the Riverworld series. . . which I personally wasn't crazy about. But he did The Stone God Awakens, which was another old favorite of mine.
[14:33] Jago Constantine: if you like surreal and trippy
[14:34] Jago Constantine: I liked the riverworld concept - all the human race being resurrected on a strange planet
[14:34] Zobeid Zuma: I'm not going to say Barnstormer is a *great* book, but it's a worthy experiment. Good for stretching the imagination a bit.
[14:35] Jago Constantine: Ok, melch, your turn :)
[14:35] Melch Savon: A book called Web Mage.
[14:36] Jago Constantine: never heard of it :P
[14:36] Melch Savon: Cross sci-fi and urban fantasy. The premise is the Fates have updated everything to modern technology
[14:36] Jago Constantine: cool
[14:36] Melch Savon: One of their descendants is a hacker, and refuses to debug their doomsday program to remove free will from humanity
[14:37] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:37] Jago Constantine: so the fates want to remove free will?
[14:37] Melch Savon: They take badly to that, and on we go ... Discord, the Furies, and sundry notables appear
[14:37] Melch Savon: Trolls and Goblins are all computer programs
[14:37] Jago Constantine: oh of course
[14:37] Melch Savon: Sure -- they are about order -- Discord is about free will and chaos
[14:37] Melch Savon: It is a great premise from, I think, a good but growing author
[14:38] Jago Constantine: who is it by?
[14:38] Melch Savon: Ummm ... hold on a sec
[14:38] Melch Savon: Kelly McCullough
[14:38] Mike111 Ewing: do you guys think scifi stories with aliens have been over done or still lots of room for improvement?
[14:38] Jago Constantine: ok that rings a bell
[14:38] Melch Savon: No, every story is new with the authors personal spin
[14:38] Jago Constantine: oh I think there are still a lot of good alien concepts
[14:39] Jago Constantine: I loved the aliens from Blindsight
[14:39] Melch Savon: i am writing one about golems created in the lab -- golems are pretty much done, but I think my spin is unique
[14:39] Jago Constantine: what's your angle?
[14:39] Mike111 Ewing: cool.. heh
[14:40] Melch Savon: Imagine a heroin addict wakes up in a hospitall ... clean. No tracks even
[14:40] Melch Savon: The first guy he sees tells him he is part of a super soldier experiment, and has a radio controlled explosive laced to his spine
[14:41] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:41] Jago Constantine: cool
[14:41] Melch Savon: What they don't tell him is he isn't him -- he is a golem, made using Kabbalistic magic as much as science
[14:41] Eddi Haskell: wow the golem
[14:41] Jago Constantine: ok ... so he's a golem with a person's memories?
[14:42] Melch Savon: yeah
[14:42] Melch Savon: Then he is attacked, to everyone's surprise, by anothre golem left over from 1100 BC
[14:42] Melch Savon: From there escape; look for parents; find out truth; go home; see 'real' self through window. Close3.
[14:42] Jago Constantine: cool
[14:42] Eddi Haskell: and he thinks its his motherinlaw right?
[14:42] Melch Savon: Still outlining the scenes, may take a few months yet
[14:43] Jago Constantine: sounds cool
[14:43] Melch Savon: Ideas are never the problem -- time to execute on them is :)
[14:43] Melch Savon: This feels right though. It started off totally different, but the story didn't work that way
[14:44] Jago Constantine: My favourite golem book of recent years is The Narrows, by Alexander Irvine
[14:44] Melch Savon: Hmm, missed that on
[14:44] Jago Constantine: ok, it's about industrial golem making in america
[14:44] Eddi Haskell: my favorite golem book is called "the Vicepresidency of Dan Quayle"
[14:44] Jago Constantine: Detroit in WW2
[14:45] Jago Constantine: They make a golem production line in the Ford plant
[14:45] Eddi Haskell: really that sounds cool . the one in willow run
[14:45] Jago Constantine: it is a cool book
[14:45] Jago Constantine: so there are germans and imps trying to sabotage the effort :P
[14:46] Melch Savon adds to his reading list ... "The Narrows"
[14:46] Eddi Haskell: i want to red it but
[14:46] Jago Constantine: it's magical realism
[14:46] Eddi Haskell: what is an "imp?"
[14:46] Jago Constantine: like a gremlin
[14:46] Jago Constantine: hey sandoone, nice to see you again
[14:46] Eddi Haskell: hi sandoone
[14:46] Sandoone Loudwater: Nice to be back JC.
[14:46] Sandoone Loudwater: Hey EH.
[14:47] Jago Constantine: So, Mike, what have you read lately?
[14:48] Jago Constantine: I should mention that Eddi and I are selling this block, so the next meeting will probably be somewhere else, maybe Insilico
[14:48] Jago Constantine: Mike might be afk
[14:48] Melch Savon: Love Insilico
[14:48] Eddi Haskell: btw we are having a cool yard sale downstairs
[14:48] Jago Constantine: hehe
[14:48] Eddi Haskell: you should check it out
[14:49] Jago Constantine: Sandoone, did you read any good sci fi in the last few weeks?
[14:49] Zobeid Zuma: aww. . . I like this place
[14:49] Jago Constantine: We might still have the island set up, it depends
[14:49] Sandoone Loudwater: Well, I've been thinking a lot about Mission to Marz, which I read a while ago.
[14:49] Eddi Haskell: well what about the rain room?
[14:49] Jago Constantine: good idea eddi
[14:49] Sandoone Loudwater: I read a bio of Von Braun and it's been filling my thoughts.
[14:50] Eddi Haskell: was he a nazi?
[14:50] Sandoone Loudwater: And head of Nasa...
[14:50] Eddi Haskell: really? wow
[14:50] Sandoone Loudwater: Ran the whole joint in Huntsville.
[14:50] Jago Constantine: I didn't know he was head of nasa cool
[14:50] Zobeid Zuma: That was the US Army's rocket program, wasn't it?
[14:51] Sandoone Loudwater: But back in the Weimar, he was like a rocketeer and was involved in their version of Monster Truck Rallies... Yup... the open air tests in the pacific, etc.
[14:51] Eddi Haskell: well after the war the americans would do anything to match the russians
[14:51] Arisia Vita: head of NASA or the Marshall Spaceflight Center in Huntsville?
[14:52] Sandoone Loudwater: Well, they kept giving him second spots cuz the V2 program killed about 10000 people in Nederlands and London and 50000 in central Europe.
[14:52] Jago Constantine: I don't think he was actually head of nasa, I just googled it
[14:52] Sandoone Loudwater: Not head, he just lead on policy.
[14:52] Jago Constantine: but he was Deputy Associate Administrator for Planning at the end
[14:52] Arisia Vita: you are right though, he was big at Marshall
[14:52] Eddi Haskell: Von Braun worked on the American intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) program before joining NASA, where he served as director of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center and the chief architect of the Saturn V launch vehicle, the superbooster that propelled the Apollo spacecraft to the Moon.
[14:53] Sandoone Loudwater: His fiction book, Mission to marz...
[14:53] Sandoone Loudwater: That's the one that got me started.
[14:53] Zobeid Zuma: There's a story about how they were woring on the Atlas rocket and somebody wanted to use a pressurized tank as the body structure.
[14:53] Zobeid Zuma: Von Braun said no, no. . . You can't do that, it has no strength. It's just a thin sheet of metal.
[14:54] Zobeid Zuma: So they pressurized the tank and gave him a hammer, and he gave the side of the tank a good whack to show them how easily it would collapse. . .
[14:54] Zobeid Zuma: But the hammer bounced back and hit him in the forehead. :)
[14:54] Jago Constantine: lol
[14:54] Zobeid Zuma: So they went with the whole pressurized tank design after all.
[14:54] Sandoone Loudwater: Yea, he was really a PR guy and a rocket enthusiast, then an engineer, not really a scientist at all.
[14:55] Jago Constantine: interesting
[14:55] Jago Constantine: hey mike you back?
[14:55] Mike111 Ewing: yeah
[14:55] Jago Constantine: did you have anything to discuss? read a good book?
[14:56] Eddi Haskell: sounds like me
[14:56] Mike111 Ewing: i havnt been reading much scifi recently unless you concider history scifi.. lol
[14:56] Eddi Haskell: but ive been reading alternative history
[14:56] Jago Constantine: heh only alternate history, or space history :P
[14:57] Sandoone Loudwater: I love history, what are you reading, Mike?
[14:57] Zobeid Zuma: I like alt-history, time travel stuff.
[14:57] Mike111 Ewing: wasnt it in one of orwells books that said history is rewritten by the ruling party
[14:57] Jago Constantine: me too, except for harry turtledove, he stinks :(
[14:58] Zobeid Zuma: buh?
[14:58] Zobeid Zuma: My favorite of all time is Guns Of The South! :P
[14:58] Jago Constantine: yeah?
[14:59] Jago Constantine: I seem to like nazis win WW2 books ... my favourites are Fatherland and The Man in the High Castle
[14:59] Zobeid Zuma: It's the definitive alt-history/time-travel story.
[14:59] Melch Savon: Fatherland was good
[14:59] Arisia Vita: my favorite series led me to choose my first name...which I bet someone here can guess?
[15:00] Jago Constantine: umm ...
[15:00] Jago Constantine: lol
[15:00] Arisia Vita: considered the father of space opera
[15:00] Sandoone Loudwater: It's weird... if you think of nazis and soviets as kooky modernists, I guess we did just assimilate them in some ways.
[15:00] Arisia Vita: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lensman
[15:00] Jago Constantine: lol thanks
[15:01] Jago Constantine: I could never get into the lensmen books
[15:01] Zobeid Zuma: Oh, I remember Lensman. . . Though I thought Skylark of Space was better. :)
[15:01] Arisia Vita: I liked that too
[15:01] Zobeid Zuma: Yeah, I couldn't really get into them either.
[15:01] Zobeid Zuma: Also, Invaders From The Infinite is worth looking up.
[15:02] Arisia Vita: Asimov loved them, so I am in good company
[15:02] Jago Constantine: sandoone, have you read John Ralston Saul? Voltaire's Bastards?
[15:02] Sandoone Loudwater: thanks for the link though
[15:02] Zobeid Zuma: superscience book
[15:02] Sandoone Loudwater: Nope. But I will look them up, thanks.
[15:02] Jago Constantine: He said that communism and capitalism were two sides of the same coin
[15:02] Zobeid Zuma: atomic this, atomic that, heat rays, force rays, energy shields, etc., etc. :)
[15:02] Jago Constantine: from memory
[15:03] Jago Constantine: I like superscience ... John C Wright's golden age books :)
[15:03] Eddi Haskell: uh
[15:03] Sandoone Loudwater: What are some of the themes?
[15:03] Eddi Haskell: what is superscience?
[15:04] Jago Constantine: amazing far out science
[15:04] Jago Constantine: heh
[15:04] Jago Constantine: like hyperspace and forcefields
[15:05] Arisia Vita: is Star Trek superscience?
[15:05] Sandoone Loudwater: Or maybe meta science... like how there are patterns in the discourse.
[15:05] Eddi Haskell: science about science
[15:05] Sandoone Loudwater: ST is funny.
[15:05] Sandoone Loudwater: I met some UFS people lately.
[15:05] Zobeid Zuma: I'm not sure if I can come up with a concise definition of the supercience genre. . .
[15:05] Sandoone Loudwater: It's like a Role Play cult, like Gor or something.
[15:06] Sandoone Loudwater: Only ST.
[15:06] Jago Constantine: I consider it anything not just beyond our current ability, but that we can't really even begin to speculate about making
[15:06] Zobeid Zuma: But usually it involves some super-genius who invents galaxy-spanning, planet-crushing spaceships and has adventures with them.
[15:06] Zobeid Zuma: Skylark could be an example.
[15:06] Jago Constantine: Ok, I have to go grab breakfast
[15:06] Sandoone Loudwater: Oh, BTW did y'all trash the Accelerando guy in the meetings after?
[15:07] Arisia Vita: and I must take a break too
[15:07] Jago Constantine: heh I didn't go to his SL visit
[15:07] Arisia Vita: this has been fun...
[15:07] Jago Constantine: thanks for coming arisia, and everyone\
[15:07] Sandoone Loudwater: Been great AV.
[15:07] Jago Constantine: I'll send out a notice where the next meeting will be
[15:07] Sandoone Loudwater: I liked Mike's hair.
[15:07] Jago Constantine: probably in our other skybox
[15:07] Jago Constantine: heh
[15:07] Jago Constantine: in a friend's parcel
[15:08] Melch Savon: Nice to have seen you all again
[15:08] Jago Constantine: yes it's good to be back :)
[15:09] Sandoone Loudwater: Oh, it's stand up time.
[15:09] Jago Constantine: bye sandoone and zobeid!
[15:09] Sandoone Loudwater: TaTA JC.
[15:09] Eddi Haskell: bye eveyrone